How to Get Organic Final Expense Leads as an Insurance Agent
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How to Get Organic Final Expense Leads as an Insurance Agent

insurance leads, Eric Beer, Performance Marketer

How to Get Organic Final Expense Leads as an Insurance Agent

Hey Performance Marketers, 

I have a real treat for you today. 

My Insurance agent wanted to buy leads but didn’t know how to structure a deal or figure out what he could pay for a lead. So I promised to explain this to him in a call that I would tape and share with my community b/c I knew it was going to be amazing. 

And it was! 

This is for all of you (no matter what your profession is) asking, How do I know how much I can pay for a lead? You can apply the model I gave to my insurance agent to any other branch.

Once you understand the numbers, you can compete with other media buyers and have hotter offers because you know what they don’t – your allowable per click / lead / sale or even booked meeting.

So, tune in as I’m walking my insurance agent through the numbers and building a working model for him from scratch.

You really don’t want to miss this one.

Let’s dive in!

I’m Not a Magician


Here’s the deal. My friend Scott is an insurance agent who wants to get involved in the lead generation space. Actually, he needs to figure out what he can do, having in mind that:

– he doesn’t know how to cut a deal

– he doesn’t have people to follow up on leads

– he doesn’t have the ability to work with leads

So we had a conversation in which I tried to help him and make some recommendations that might be able to help you if you’re looking to scale your business (and you’d like to do it using my online marketing tactics). 

Actually, these are the things we’ve been talking about in some of the previous episodes, so I won’t dive into every single formula for calculating the numbers you need to know before you go to a meeting with a publisher you could potentially buy leads from. 

I also recommend watching the full episode on YouTube since I’m presenting the numbers in the Excel and playing with them to show you how you can calculate if some deal works for you – Scott even called me “an Excel Magician,” lol.

(*No – I’m not a magician, just an average guy who figured out the things in lead gen business 20 years ago and wants to show you how to make money doing the same.) 

So if you watch the conversation with Scott, you can literally replicate the table and use it every time you need to figure out your maximal allowable offer (MAO) in a potential lead buying deal.


I Found a Publisher – What Now? 


Scott actually found a publisher selling leads of people who buy cemetery plots for the future. So, his idea is that they might also be interested in purchasing the insurance to pay or recoup costs down the road when they pass away.

Scott is in a very preliminary stage of negotiation with the publisher. He knows that the publisher generates several thousands of leads a month and that he wants to start selling them to insurance agents.

Searching their website, we see they have potentially high-quality leads in their database. In their lead magnet, they’re collecting a lot of valuable data (name, phone number, email, Zip code, type of services they want, who are you buying the plot for…)

The ton of information they ask for in their application form shows us that they have good leads – if someone is willing to fill in all the info to schedule a meeting, they must be very interested in the service.

Knowing these pieces of information, we can start figuring out our numbers. Why are we doing that at this stage? Because we want to be prepared for the negotiation with the publisher. We don’t know how much he’s asking for. But we can calculate how much we can offer.

And we can calculate that for every scenario, so we can have enough space to offer something nobody in the market would dare. When I say this, I don’t mean taking wild risks. I mean taking calculated risks that make us look like wild takers.

As I repeated so many times – the higher the risk, the higher the potential reward. (Except that our risk doesn’t have to be high at all – if we know our numbers.)


Where the Party Begins


Since Scott needs very high-quality leads (because he has no staffing to do the follow-up and close those leads on the back end), this publisher could be a good fit for his business. 

The thing he needs to know first is what the value of a customer for him is. Since he sells $10k-$30k insurance policies, he can make $200-$500 per customer. Speaking from experience, he agreed to assume that an average value per customer is $350.

The second thing he knows is that he wants to work on a 50% margin. It means he’s willing to pay up to $175 to acquire a customer. If the publisher accepts the offer – then it’s great. He generates leads, sets up meetings, and Scott pays $175 every time he closes a deal.

But the publisher can’t know if Scott closed a deal or not. So he is the one who takes a great risk, and he probably won’t accept that kind of deal. That’s why we must calculate how much we can afford to pay him per click / lead / booked meeting / lead shows up to a meeting.

And that’s where the party begins. So make sure to watch the full episode, and get the model of calculating all those numbers and predicting what you can afford to pay depending on the lead quality (conversion rate, percentage of people showing up to a meeting, …)

We’re playing with a bunch of different scenarios so that you can prepare for the meeting and know how to respond when the publisher says, “No way, man, I can’t do that – it’s too risky for me.”

You’ll know the way to go with the same offer, but that looks like you’re taking all the risk.  

If you have any questions or you want to suggest a topic for the podcast, shoot me a message on social media or in my text community (917-636-1998) and let me know!

If you’d like to get bonus Performance Marketer content, sign up for my SurveyDetective VIP waitlist!

🕵️‍♂️  Sign up for the SurveyDetective VIP Waitlist HERE

I’m looking forward to hearing from you! 

See you next time!


Listener Love…

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Read Full Transcript

Eric Beer 00:00
This is the business man. I mean, look, you have a, you could generate another $1.6 million if all these numbers are real. And I have a hunch that that $350 is allowable.

I spent the last 17 years building my eight-figure performance business without using any of my own money, working with some of the most brilliant direct response marketers in the world today. Now I’m looking for entrepreneurs to join my affiliate army built on ethics, transparency, and good old hard work. Join me to change the perception of how people view the greatest business in the world, affiliate marketing, and follow along as I learn, apply, and share performance marketing strategies, working with some of the brightest people on the planet. My name is Eric Beer, and welcome to the Performance Marketer podcast.

Welcome to the channe! We are going to talk about how to buy leads, I have a friend who is in the insurance space, he wants to get involved in the lead generation space, it does not know how to cut a deal, it does not have people to follow up on leads does not have the ability to work leads, so he needs to figure out what he can do. So, we’re gonna go over, I have no idea how this call is gonna go, I’m just going to have a conversation with him. Do a little bit of a discovery on his business so that I can make some recommendations that might be able to help you in your business, if you’re looking to scale your business, and you’d like to do it using my online marketing tactics. So, stick around and let’s dive in. Welcome Scott Bernstein. Ladies and gentlemen, I might as well tape it, and then use this because the amount of questions I get like this from people, I get it all the time. So, I don’t even have an agenda here. And how we’re going to do this. We’re just going to, we’re just going to start to talk I’m going to I’m going to type up some things here just as on a discovery of like the conversation we’re having. But our so you have these sites someone’s generating leads, and they want to sell them to so where are they generating leads as your Shiva the resource for Jewish morning plans in general. OK. So, these seem like they’re relevant. Right? So, cemeteries, this is all around people looking for when people pass away, I would imagine you buy the insurance before they passed away. But in any event, well, what’s

Scott Bernstein 02:32
So, what we know what will be happening is they’re doing they’re basically buying plots, right? They’re planning ahead, showing in theory, there, they could be buying the insurance to pay or to recoup cost down the road when they actually pass.

Eric Beer 02:52
Got it. So, someone comes here, they buy the plot today for the future. And then they want to buy insurance against what they’re buying the plot for. Whether it’s for themselves, or their kids are correct. Yeah.

Scott Bernstein 03:05
I mean, I think in general, when you’re visiting a site like this, right, I would think insurance could come into your mind at the same time. That could be final expense could be traditional insurance.

Eric Beer 03:18
OK. Did he take you through any process of how he’s generating leads? OK, learn, plan, find search. OK, where’s the signup? Free Planning Guide? OK, so this is, this is an ethical bribe, right? So, maybe he’s capturing data here by giving them some for each schedule a meeting, find a cemetery, let’s see what happens if we took that. This is what we call a lead magnet. All right. So, the idea here is that he’s giving away something of value. In return, he’s getting information from somebody, he’s building up his database, without going to detail about what I do. Survey Detective, which is software that I’m building would have this as the back end goals, right. And we use surveys to go out and attract the avatar that you’re looking for to come through and give you some information so you can segment them based off of certain characteristics, and then have some sort of call to action in the background is tricky. However, on the surveys that we’re doing, where we collect this information, most of it so that you don’t even have to collect this again. So, you could do something else depending on what the businesses but in any event, error, last name, email, phone, city, state zip type of service, information Funeral Home Summit, OK, our partners Shiva, even though some of the brands so this, this is a publisher to me, right. This would be to be an affiliate with someone on the site, or a publisher, the way I look at it.

Scott Bernstein 04:57
You’re gonna get you’re gonna get bombarded with email. So,

Eric Beer 05:00
the reason why you fill out these lead forms is because you want information, right? There’s this myth that oh, you fell for some of them, you’re gonna get on boarded. That’s not everybody in his mind, you want to fill out this form if you want information, right? Let them come to you. Why not? If you can give value to somebody, why not? So, I feel that the lead form says your complimentary planning guide and checklist. Thank you for requesting some of the checklist, this has been emailed to you at the address roster. OK, so now they go and they send that to me. See, for me, like when I generate a lead like that you have somebody interested? It’s like, if you have them there, why stop? Right? Why not continue to engage them and get them while they’re thinking better right now. Instead, now I gotta go send an email, then I have to re engage them to ultimately get them thinking about this event. And now wanting to make junk folder, thank you for requesting the planning guide checklist, the attached file, revising the file, step by step or navigate the most sensitive thing, if you would like to schedule a meeting to speak with a Planning Specialist scheduling meeting, OK, when I got the email, they asked me if I wanted to schedule a meeting. So, click here schedule meeting who you’re planning this for, and it’s gonna take me through consultants meeting for some sort of server. This is the free guide, cemetery, planning that, right, so the giving value of the bat determined type of burial cemetery scheduling. So, this is all great, right? For me, we’re in a world of just relationships on a world of information, just the ability to just hop on a zoom right now, like you and I are doing and seeing each other, right. So, one of the things for me that I, I push people to do, either through their own attractive character, either it needs to be them, or it needs to be the brand, in some way, where you’re starting to create a relationship with this person. So, you want to create an authority, right? You want to be an expert, you want to be the authority, they want you to think that you are the the be all end. All right. So, it’s like, if you’re the guy, and you’re in a relationship business, if you’re the guy that’s in the front end, delivering this value, I would want you somewhere here on the front end of Hi, I’m Scott, here’s reasons why you need this and just talk through it, you know, your, your, your avatar, you know, the who, the more you know, the who and the more you can speak to it, that’s the whole thing within the building your own surveys. But So, in any event, this is what they’re doing here, which is cool, right? And they’re giving some value. I still don’t know, like, I don’t have a connection with anybody yet. It’s still cemetery data, but whatever. So, OK, I’m planning for myself or left on a loved one. OK, when would you require services, planning for the future? Find your loved ones location will use my work type of burial and funeral. Burial, your loved ones information. So, OK. Scheduling meeting, where would you like to meet virtual residents funeral home phone call other virtual. OK. Anytime you are going to buy from somewhere you want to go through and just see like the user experience, right? You want to try to understand what’s going on? OK, Thursday, July 9 12, from the meeting. So, they just took you through like a process where they got a good amount of information. And they scheduled a meeting for you where somebody can be there for that call. Now, the question you’re going to want to know about is what’s the sharp rate? Right? You’re going to want to know, if I have somebody waiting to have a conversation with somebody. What happens if I pay somebody and then they don’t show up? You’re going to pass? Thank you for scheduling your sisters presents a lot of information. It’s a lot. It’s a lot. If someone’s willing to fill this out. It’s a good lead. Yeah. I would imagine for you would think that it’s a good lead. Right? It really, I would agree. Now I have some I have some comments on that. But in any event, alright, so this isn’t just like a simple little lead play. Right? So, I get it. I understand what they’re doing. They’re getting a sign up and then they want to sell this to somebody. Correct? Yep. As he told you what he wants to sell it to you for

Scott Bernstein 09:48
now. It’s very preliminary stage. It’s pretty much you know, what he’s saying is, you know, he’s generating however many 1000 leads a month and he He wants to finally because we’ve thought for a few years on and off, he wants to finally start seeing how we can transition to sell insurance from it. Back in the day, he wanted to be involved in the selling of the insurance. And now I think he’s realized that he doesn’t want to be involved in that part of it. But he wants to sell the information. That’s kind of where we’re at. That’s great.

Eric Beer 10:17
This is this is just one media source. All right. So, it doesn’t really matter when you need to use you need to understand what your what’s going on your business, right. So, here’s my notes, right. 10 To 30,000 usually is the insurance policy that would sell no underwriting, you do not know how to structure a deal with this person. You want to sell insurance, you want to do some marketing deal, which is really more of a performance finance model, you want to pay on an acquisition, when you sell insurance, you do not want to be the buyer of leads, you do not want to have anyone follow up on the calls, you aren’t what what I say when I do want somebody at the meeting,

Scott Bernstein 10:56
when I say we don’t want to buy the leads, I guess the question really comes down to is, you know, understanding,what’s the cost per lead?

Eric Beer 11:03
Right? Well, it’s not just because there’s, there’s a lot, there’s very different ways that you can purchase leads. And if I’m hearing right, from what you just said, you do not have the manpower on the back end to work leads. So, for you to buy leads, that lead needs to be very, very high quality, which means that they’re going to need to capture a tremendous amount of information that you’re going to have to guide the person, which from everything I just went through, this looks like a good lead, this looks like a good fit for your business. Versus if I were to go out and generate leads for you in a lot of other ways that I do that today. From other companies, it could be the best thing in the world. But if you’re not prepared, on the back end, to follow up and close those leads, create sequences, communicate with them in a way that is needed. It’s not going to work for you, and you’re gonna lose my name. But if these leads saw, Oh, you saw people know what you’re doing. We’re gonna hear it all the time, right? And so lead to five different people and two of them, love your leads, three of them, hate them. It’s the exact same lead. And it really comes down to how well structured Are you on the back end? How much? Do you understand what’s going on? Do you know how to work the leads out of closes leads, etc, etc? Which is fine. And listen, you’re you’re in the business of insurance, you’re not in the business of lead gen. It’s not what you do. So, it’s understandable why that would happen. Right. But before we do that, I just need to understand. First off, here’s the first thing I would ask you, you need to understand what is the value of a customer to you. So, if you’re selling to 10 to $30,000 policies, what do you make, you need to know that and then you need to work backwards, right? You need to know what the value is of a customer before you can figure out what you can afford. So, with honor about like guesstimates. I would imagine depending on how much insurance you sell would determine what the value of that customer is. So, just give me like a guesstimate of like the the value of the customer,

Scott Bernstein 13:09
I would say to in this case, I would say to us two to $500 200

Eric Beer 13:16
to $500. Correct. And that’s all based on if it’s 10 to 30k. So, is that is that the bottom line? For you?

Scott Bernstein 13:26
That’s a rough I mean, it’s a rough number based on selling the policy of that side of that size. So, could we you you need me to narrow it down a little bit further?

Eric Beer 13:36
Well, let’s just let’s just where you need to know how much the value of the customers? Well, let’s just do the averages 50 bucks

Scott Bernstein 13:42
Exactly. Let’s use 350 average. So, that’s let’s pretend like that’s what you’re making. OK, now you need to understand your business. So, you need to figure out what is the allowable you are willing to spend to acquire a customer. You need to figure out what what are you willing to spend to get a customer for example, 50 bucks. What is that? I don’t know yet.

Eric Beer 14:06
Yeah, you do? What kind of margin I’ll work on? Well look, if you want to work on 50% margins, then you can spend $175 If you want to work on 75% margins, you can we can afford a customer for what is that like? Little bit of their 90 bucks, right? 80 something dollars per

Scott Bernstein 14:27
let’s, let’s you let’s use a 50% margin.

Eric Beer 14:31
OK. So, if you want to work on margin of 50%. So, this is what you’re willing to spend right now. For every time you close on a customer. All right. This is what you’re saying you want to spend with him. So, you want to start off with a simple deal with him where if he’s willing to do it, you could say, OK, hey, Joey, What’s up, buddy? You want to sell me some leads? That sounds cool. Rate, I don’t want to pay per lead, I want to do a marketing deal with you, where I pay you, every time I acquire a new customer, I’m willing to pay you $175 For every close of a deal. Every time I sell insurance, I will give you 175 bucks. He says yes, great, let him go generate the lead, let him book The calls for you set you up, you go and work those leads. And then if you close, then you will pay him, there’s no way for him to know if you’re closing or not. So, you’d have to report to him you’d have to be there’s, there’s like a trust factor there. Because there’s pixels being fired. Right? You could be recording the phone calls, and you could be showing him, you know, these calls. But for the most part, he’s in the dark, right? In that scenario, who has more risk, the publisher or the publisher? Worse, right? You may say, Scott, I love you. But that doesn’t work for me. So, when you’re buying media in this business, it’s it’s really just risk on the table of who’s taking on most of the risk. So, if you look at it here, the allowable on a sale, right? CPA, so you’re going to pay, alright, if we work backwards on that, then we would look at what’s happening. And this is their Brooklyn meeting, wow, for a lead, right, we’re working backwards. Click now in this scenario, they’re not driving traffic to your form, they’re driving traffic to their form, they’re capturing the data. So, you don’t have a form for them to drive traffic to. However, if you want to play within these metrics, this is how you would work out your numbers to figure it out. Right? So, I think here is what you would need to know is, what is the conversion rate from a booked to A? So, you would want to know how many people did he booked? And of those people that he booked? How many people are in closing? And then what is the value of that? And then at that point, you can figure out what the value of a booked meeting is to you. So, you can if you know your numbers here, you can you can you can you’ll pay anything at this point, right? You might even say to him, I’ll pay you on the lead. But I still need you to get the meeting setup. In this scenario, like it just comes down to like, right, if we talk about risk, we’ll work up here. He’s taking all the risks. Down here, the risk is more on you. She’s still driving a click, you still got to get a click. But all these things need to happen. Click to a lead to a book meeting to a sale. Right? That’s the user journey at this point. Right? I don’t know how long it takes from the book meeting to when you close a sale, is that going to happen immediate? I mean, it sounds like it’s definitely less time than your normal whole life insurance business or whatever else you’re doing. So, Could someone purchase if you get the right intent short, I could see it happening off the bat, right? You don’t have to do any underwriting. So, that’s huge. Yes, business. That’s huge. Right? What I would want to know is, what do you think, what the other thing is, when they book a call? It’s not just that, right? And actually move this down? Because from a book call, show up for me. Right? So, you need to show up late. So, book meeting. So, you’re gonna want to know all this stuff, right? So, if we did it here, let’s say there, I’ll just do some, some fun numbers for you. Let’s say you don’t really care about his clicks, but we can do anywhere. Let’s say clicks. Let’s say he gets 1000 clicks. Let’s say that he from the clicks, let’s say, Click, so lead percentage, and say he goes, he gets 10%. Right? And then from our lead to work, again. Let’s say it’s 10%. Right? And then we’re booked meaning to show up. Meaning to show up. Percentage. Let’s say it’s 30%. So, if we run these numbers off the bat, alright, so you have three meats that are going to show up that you have a chance to close. Right now, these are all variables. This right, and these numbers can skew this model in this scenario. You don’t know what he’s wanting to charge you for. I’d imagine that he’s going to charge you for a lead or a bookmaker. Right? Now you might negotiate with him. I’ll pay for a book meeting but if the person doesn’t show up my pain For that, he might say, OK, or you might say, OK, I’ll let you scrub up to 10% of the book meetings that I get for you. Right? That’s all on the negotiating of the discussion in the media, right. But in any event, if you’re doing that, I’m gonna move these numbers up. So, it gets a little bit more exciting. So, I’m going to give you a closed percentage, let’s say you chose 50% of the people. So, let’s say that he converts 25%. Let’s say that of those 25% 25%. And then you ever booked meaning of 62? And then if 30% show up, let’s say 18. Show up. Let’s say that you’re gonna close 50%. So, that was the sales, yay. Your allowable that we discussed was $175. So, your media costs would be 1600 bucks. revenue would be what you said here 350. Their revenue will be 350. Morgan made 16 edibles. Right. So, ultimately, by you being able to look at that. OK, so you see here, right? You’re profitable. Now, the question is at 175. Right? Are you going to close this many? Correct. So, these are the variables of the business and how you figure it out? You test? Just test?

Scott Bernstein 22:00
Yeah, I mean, the question also is what what He deems a lead, right, it’s a lead to him. A click is a lead in a book meeting,

Eric Beer 22:09
a click as a lead is defined as somebody that opts in with some information, sure. And then you will be purchasing that information. One, when you do that, you also have the permission, you’re gonna have to have something in there that has your information in there that says that when they’re opting in, they’re giving you permission to communicate with them. You’re gonna want that. Alright, so your marketing partner is, you know, I don’t know how much information we’re giving you. But I would dive into, you know, where’s he getting the traffic from? He’s got some sexy domains, right? So, could he be getting some SEO traffic? SEO is like organic traffic and search, it’s very high quality traffic, if he’s buying PPC, which is also through search, again, very high quality traffic, no other reason why it’s high quality traffic? No, because the user has an intent. The user is the one creating this action. They’re going into Google and they’re typing in funeral expense, buy a plot plan for the future, right? It’s on their mind, they’re the ones going and doing it. Versus like, if you’re going out and buying media on Facebook, right? Someone hops on to Facebook, and you’re you’re creating an ad in their in their newsfeed, right, the whole goal of marketers is you want to create some pattern interruption, you want to capture the eye of the person, but that person when they’re logged on to Facebook is not thinking about buying any funeral insurance, right? There. They’re going on to look at their friends or whatever, they’re doing Facebook, and then you capture their eye, they click and then they go through this process. And you take them down that that funnel, right versus Google, they are the ones starting that process. So, that’s, that’s a higher value lead should be worth more, and you should close more. Right? The percentages of that close should be higher. And it really, you know, it just comes down to like, what stage in the process? Are you getting that person? Right? If they’re from Google, they’re clicking, they’re going to his page, they’re signing up, they’re putting in all that information, and then you’re getting a booked call. And after they booked the call, they’re giving more information, then that’s a really high quality, then you should have a good close rate. Right? I would imagine like that’s, I don’t know what kind of scale there is here. I don’t know what the volume is for you. But, you know, listen, what if he’s getting 10,000 clicks? a month? Right. So, like I just showed you like a simple plain number. What if he’s getting 50 shirts a month? That’s what the business would look like for you. And you’d be making 82k a month, right? If you were here, you’d be spending 80 2k And you’d be generating 164,000, you could do this on a monthly basis. Right? Then 12 months on this piece of business without doing anything, right? Making almost a million bucks in profit. Yep. You know, for you, you need to figure out, what is it that you can buy traffic for? How much risk are you willing to take to buy this traffic? And go from there? Right. So, you know, right here that you can afford an allowable for sale at 175 bucks. Well, can you pay per lead?

Scott Bernstein 25:37
I don’t know. Yeah. This should do. But 175

Eric Beer 25:41
It’s just math. It’s just math. No, I gotcha. That’s it.

Scott Bernstein 25:45
Right. I gotcha. I just gotta confirm some of the some of the numbers. You know, some of the behind the scenes numbers,

Eric Beer 25:50
You know, what is the allowable per sale?

Scott Bernstein 25:53

Eric Beer 25:55
175. So, if the metrics stay the same like this, and you’re getting 12,500 leads, just work backwards. Right? Well, you know that you’re willing to spend a sale here, you’re getting a 50% conversion rate. So, these are the show ups, these are the sales. So, at 468 times 175. You’re spending 82k? Because that was right, the answer is yes. Because right here, it’s all just it’s, you’re controlling it because all you’re doing is you’re spending 175 bucks, well, you’re allowable here is if he’s going to generate forms in 68, sales of these 12,500. So, if you wanted to look at what is the conversion rate from the lead to sale percentage, we could look at it like this, right? So, this is how I would look at it, I would take this divided by elites. Alright, so you get a 3% conversion rate on a lead per sale. Right? If your lead allowable, we’re just looking at what do you want to spend 82,000 divided by your top five. So, you could pay 7000? What do you what can you pay for a book meeting?

Scott Bernstein 27:19
You told me you you’re you’re the Excel, the Excel magician,

Eric Beer 27:24
book meeting, divided by the percentage. So, we’re doing a cell wide about book meetings. It’s 15%. Meaning to see what that looks like. the reason why we want to know those percentages is because that’s going to come into play when you’re working on your model. So, what is your allowable? Here’s your number. Here’s your numbers here, your allowables. And I’ll put these on the right just because you’re spending it, right. Here’s what they’re making. Alright, so you have an $82,000 immediate cost allowable. So, it doesn’t change for you doesn’t really matter. It’s just how many book meetings divided by your 82,000. So, you want to pay 26. So, what are you paying for a show up? Wow. So, take a watch from two to 2000 divided by what? showed up, right? Yep. And then we ran the numbers just to show that the numbers were right, we would look at show up to sale percentage show 50%. So, now allowable. Now we want to say sale. Guidance, that’s what this is going to be. Now 82,000 divided by the sales should equal 175. Right? Because that’s what we started with. That’s what you told me earlier that was. So, what I’m trying to show you here, or when you’re having a conversation with somebody is you got to know your numbers, you got to know what you can afford. And you got to work to work the business from you closing the business and work all the way in reverse. And at that point, when you’re having a conversation if you have this in front of you, right, these are the things that you’re going to be looking at when you’re saying all right, well, what can I afford? Well, I know that if I’m buying the leads, if I can afford $6.56 If right, well, if you’re paying for the lead, then you just want to pay attention for what happens after. Right How many people book will show up and the closed If you’re paying for the book meeting, you don’t really care about the leads, right? Because you’re not paying for anything. So, they book a meeting. So, you’d start from booking the meeting. And then you’d say, OK, if you booked me 3125 meetings, I need to know, what’s the percentage of people that are gonna show up for that meeting? Right? I want to know, because the numbers, this will change everything then. Right? Watch. What happens if 40% show up? Sure. Right. Yep. What happens if 50%? Sure. So, what’s happening here? See these numbers changing? No, these numbers are changing. You’re seeing more people? Right? It just, it doesn’t matter. Like, matter what you pay in a lead. It doesn’t matter what you pay on a book meeting on a show up. I mean, it matters. But it all matters to the like the end game, what do you want to spend every time you get a customer? Now, when you work backwards, you can do you could do anything, you could pay on a on a show up a book meeting a lead a click, you can go to the oppression if you had to write? Well, the thing is, is that most people don’t know this. Right? So, this is where you can get an edge in your business. Right? You could you could be competing with 25,000 other insurance brokers out there who don’t understand this. And like you, I only want to pay when I get to sell, right? Well, if I’m a guy driving traffic, and I have leads, and you come to me and say, You know what, Eric, I’d be willing to pay you $45 When you book a meeting, for every book meeting, I’ll pay you 45 bucks, when everybody else wants to pay 175 for a closed sale? By the way, it’s exact same thing, right? But guess what, if no one else is doing that, maybe maybe the guy be willing to pay? Maybe you take 20 bucks, right? This is your decision number here. But what if you can get some book meetings for 20 bucks, and now you’re putting yourself in a position to really have a sexy business, if all of these numbers stay the same? Right, right. So, the variables are these percentages of what’s happening. As you start to buy traffic as you start to do this, or you’re going to learn as if you test right now, as you test and you start to learn the numbers, you start to understand, usually, for the most part, unless somebody tweaks what they’re doing on the front end traffic sources, it’s going to stay around that range. For the most part where you, you can make some predictions, of course, you want to be watching it, right. Because what I like to call it as a truck, no matter what you’re doing, you can true up in the back end later, as you start to look at data every day and say, OK, well, how many? How many meetings did we get? I know if you get me X amount of meetings, that I’m going to close XYZ. And as long as you’re getting the same type of traffic from somebody, you can model out the business, that the minute, the minute you go and buy traffic from somebody else, somewhere else, these numbers, you can use these numbers as a baseline. But it’s going to be different. Because it’s all based on where are you meeting this person in the journey of a lead. Alright, so you can play here, this seems like a good place for you to start, because it looks like it’s a good high quality lead, and it’s taking away a lot of the work you need to do that if he’s, if he’s willing to listen, he’s willing to get paid on a sale, then also go for it. If he’s like, I don’t want to do that. Then maybe he’s getting you know, alright, then I’d be willing to pay you on a meeting as a test. Well, how do you do it? OK, well, you know what I’ll spend, I want to spend $1,000, to test it out. I’m gonna spend 5000 hours tested, I’m gonna spend 10,000, I’m willing to put it all out, I’ll sign the contract for 100 grand, but I can cancel it anytime within 24 hours. And I want you to cap the leads to 10 a day. Right? So, what does that immediately it looks like you’re a player. But really, at the end of the day, if you’re willing to spend $50 For every book meeting, and you’re capping them at 10 bucks, your risk is 500 bucks a day. Right? But you sign the $100,000 contract, right doesn’t really matter as long as you can have an out to cancel at any time. But it’s all based on the perception of who you are and how you do the deal. So, make sense? Absolutely. I’ve been trying to do this for years. Like this is how you scale your business. People are doing this online today in a massive way. Right? This is you going out to third party publishers to buy leads meetings, and you don’t have to do anything from buying traffic. You can set up your own forums and drive traffic to your own forums. You could set up surveys from survey detective to drive traffic there and start generating leads Right, and you probably can get a loan for a lot cheaper. But then there’s a lot more that has to go on the back end that maybe you’re willing to invest in, maybe you’re not. This is the businessman. I mean, look, you have a, you could generate another $1.6 million with all these numbers are real. And I have a hunch that that $350 is, is a lowball. Right? Let’s say that we use $500 as the value of the customer. And now your allowable? Well, what do we say? 50%. So, if we still use 175, now are allowable as you can pay $250. For every customer, you got a $2.3 million gross margin business, from a publisher and its business, do you currently do not have an addition to what you do today? Could you use an extra $2.3? million?

Scott Bernstein 35:52
Of course not.

Eric Beer 35:54
Of course, you do. Of course. It’s a no brainer. Right? And, you know, it’s just a question of, you know, there’s a lot of variables here, right? It’s like, how many clicks is he getting? How many leads? Is he getting? How many book meetings? Is he getting? How many people showing up for that meeting? Are these percentages happening, like, and then you know, I would sit and talk to him, I’m happy to do this. Go get out and start playing around with these numbers, if he’s willing to work with you on a book meeting, or even leads that are showing up? You don’t even you don’t care about any of this other stuff. Right? All you care about you start from just from when the person shows up? How many people am I going to close? And you can play with those numbers, you can change the close rate to give yourself, you know, some room maybe only close 20%? Well, at that point, what can you pay on a show up or here show up for meeting allowable 50 bucks at 20%? Closer, but if you close 10%. Now you can pay $25 per show up? Make sense? Yeah. So, this is this is a nice little like media calculator for you to figure it out. When you’re playing around, and you’re communicating with whatever publisher you want to buy traffic. And all you got to do is start from number first, you need to know your number, you need to know what you’re gonna make when you get a customer. And then you gotta need to know what you’re allowed. What’s gonna keep this in mind. This is your, your gross margin. This doesn’t count for employees or rent or any other stuff. So, you’d want to put that in the model for yourself. I wasn’t gonna get into that today. No, of course. So, to answer your question, this is how you do it. And I wanted to come on and do this here for you so that I can also do it for my community. So, because there’s 1000s of people that are in your position, that don’t realize this, most people that are here that that watch my stuff are like, Oh, lead arbitrage, I’m just gonna go and generate leads and flip leads. People don’t realize that like, you need leads as a real business, like learning this can change your business as an advertiser, if you’re an insurance, if you’re a dentist, if you’re a chiropractor, if you’re a coach, right? If you have an agent, it’s all the same doesn’t matter. It’s just you understand this stuff, then you can take matters into your own hands, and you can really scale your business. And whether you’re buying media yourself, or you’re going out and finding affiliates to do it. Your performance marketer, welcome, welcome to the community kid. Graduated, hey, let’s measure things. Let’s go work on results. All right. Is that? Is that good?

Scott Bernstein 38:24
So absolutely. Given? You know, I think I’m good.

Eric Beer 38:29
Was that helpful? You have nothing? No questions whatsoever? One more question. Before we go, if I can make you $460,000 Would you pay me 120,000? Of course, I would force you to pay me 350,000 To make 460,000 in one year, that you’re going to have knowledge for a lifetime? For? Yeah. Are you joking? You don’t have to think about that. How much

Scott Bernstein 38:53
you have to put into net Anjan 30,000. But my man hours,

Eric Beer 38:57
what happens the following year? How much to me? And the following year after that. And the following after that, why are you so short sighted? Would you pay me $750,000 To make $468,000 I can make the argument that you should. And if you don’t, shame on you, right? Because I’m not doing this for you. I’m teaching you how to do it. I’m teaching you how to fish. I’m not fishing for you. If I could teach this to you today, and you take a year think about this, right? You send your kid to school for $80,000 a year for four years. So, you’re not positive right? You’re 320k in the hole. To then hope your kid comes out of school and gets a job for 30 grand or 40 grand 50 And then figures out what they’re going to do. Right versus now I ask you would you pay me to be in the hole for for angiogram where I can show you how to make forge a K 468. Now let’s do that for 10 years. So, you’re gonna make $4.6 million from Unless you would have paid me 750k And unit 3.9 million. What happens in the next? Well, let’s pretend like you actually figure how to do this and you can scale it. Right? Well, what happens if now you’re now you’re gonna go find 150,000 clicks on the internet? Now you made? How much? 1.4 million 14. Right? And this is at the close rate of 10%. Let’s go back to you. 30%. Closer. All right, and I just made $42 million in 10 years. Would you pay me 750 grand for that?

Scott Bernstein 40:34

Eric Beer 40:38
So so everybody looks at that number. They don’t look at what they’re getting and how they can scale it just because they’re so afraid. They’re so afraid of like, what am I going to really be able to do it? I don’t know. It’s just these insecurities because they’ve never done it. If you look at the math, it’s a no brainer. No brainer. I’ve been telling you this for like years, you see pretty much we’ve been I’ve been selling for 10 years, and you’ve lost $42 million

Scott Bernstein 41:01
until I was $42 million.

Eric Beer 41:05
You didn’t need it. Well, the good news is you got you got more time. So, exactly. Giddy up. Alright, man. Well, I hope this was helpful for you.

Scott Bernstein 41:14
Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I’ll see you later. Thanks, Eric.

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