How to Grow Successful E-Commerce Business in the Next Decade With Bryan Bowman

Bryan Bowman 0:00
The concepts are all transferable. We all as marketers, so here's a marketing lesson, we try to make things very niche-specific, right? You hear this idea that riches are in the niches - it's true! if you speak about something in a very specific context, it seems more valuable. But here's the reality. The Lego pieces are all the same. You got to know how to get leads, right? You got to know how to nurture them, you got to have your pipeline full of leads, you're going to have a certain amount that converts today, certain tomorrow, certain that you got to nurture them. You got to have a good conversion rate, got to have good follow up. Marketing is marketing, learn the skills... So that's what I'm saying is like, you know, try different things.

Eric Beer 0:34
I spent the last 17 years building my eight-figure performance business without using any of my own money, working with some of the most brilliant direct response marketers in the world today. Now I'm looking for entrepreneurs to join my affiliate army, built on ethics, transparency, and good old hard work. Join me to change the perception of how people view the greatest business in the world, affiliate marketing, and follow along as I learn, apply, and share performance marketing strategies working with some of the brightest people on the planet. My name is Eric Beer and welcome to the Performance Marketer Podcast.

Bryan Bowman ladies and gentlemen. First off, tell us about your golf game. How are we doing?

Bryan Bowman 1:21
Uh, my golf game? Oh man, I thought you're gonna start with some... Some like, some softball questions. You went, you went straight to the hard stuff. No, I mean, I haven't been playing as much. I got so I mean, I played a really competitive level like a professional level for a while then gave up the game because I just got tired of it. And I had an injury... I basically, it's one of those things, one of those life moments where I had to either change course or else I kind of saw like 15 years from now I'm going to be doing the same thing and just my time will be up and it'll be not the path I want to be down. So I went back to school, I got my degree and then then I started competing again though, so like, I would have the... I had two stints where I came back was playing amateur golf. And the thing is, anyone who's ever played, ever done anything in a really highly competitive level, I mean, even like a college athlete or something, it's hard. Like I got a buddy, he was a swimmer. He was a swimmer at, you know, a big university. And he kind of started getting into like triathlons and swimming is obviously a big part of that. Yeah, it's like, you can't... Once you've known like, what you can do, even if you can't do that anymore, it's hard to just like chill and go play, like play an enjoyable round of golf. So I get really competitive again, I start thinking of like, you know, this, like, former self and what I could do, and then I, you know, you'll go out and I'll shoot, I'll shoot 71 and I'll be upset, right? Even though I don't play at all, but I'll be upset because I'll remember some days, you know, the days when I could do a lot more so. So anyway, I gotta balance it.

Eric Beer 2:50
Yes. I don't play baseball anymore. I don't play. I don't play so... I don't do any of that. I just, I'm not... I love it. I love the game. But yeah, I take my competitiveness and I play tennis or a little bit of golf, but I just that's I think what I loved about it was more of the competing. I love sport, but I think I love the sport because I was good at it. You know, like, if I was good at volleyball, I probably would have loved that sport. Yeah, no, it's the competitiveness the fun. And the drive that is just what I love. That's why it's I gotta find something else. It's just once I'm competing. I love it. And I'm and I'm, I mean, I love tennis right now. So...

Bryan Bowman 3:25
Is that is that what you're into right now? tennis. Yeah, that's my exercise. I love tennis. That's good. I love how all the brands are net. Even brands, like markets are advertising about social distancing, like golf is doing it, tennis. like, I see the tennis commercials all the time on YouTube.

Eric Beer 3:43
You should see the US Open right now you if you've watched any of it, it's wild. They're like in this court and no one's there. You can hear everything like that when they hit the ball and then they're screaming at themselves.

Bryan Bowman 3:54
They'll do it because that's part of the routine. That's how they play Yeah, they're not gonna change that but it's it's so wild man and Yeah, and they hadn't they like put people in the stands, which is kind of funny. Well, I'm a huge UFC fan. I've been like since the beginning now like since UFC one. And it's weird because like now the fights, it's just the cornerman and the ref. And like the judges, that's it's real. So it's super quiet. So you could hear like the guy's breathing. You could hear all the punches. So it's a different experience. Whereas before, I can't watch it.

Eric Beer 4:25
Some I can't, I gotta turn away sometimes. So you are a professional golfer, then you went back...

Bryan Bowman 4:31
Which sounds way more glamorous than it actually is. But yeah...

Eric Beer 4:35
I mean, golf is awesome. And it's gotten cooler in the last like, 20 years for sure. Yeah, it's amazing. It's a big sport. By the way, just before we even dive into that. Did you see any of the golf over the weekend?

Bryan Bowman 4:48
This last weekend?

Eric Beer 4:49
You watching that, I think it was the BMW tournament?

Bryan Bowman 4:52
No, I didn't watch this last day.

Eric Beer 4:53
So I caught the last like, probably like a half-hour and Dustin Johnson hit like a ridiculous putt on 18 to go to a playoff and I guess he's one in the other guy Rome, I think is his name one of these pumps where like he hit it. And he's on the green and like he's got hit this putt to go to overtime or whatever. It's a playoff. No, like it's he was down here and it was like one of those pots where you have to up the hill, and then it has to roll down the ridge. So like he puts it up and has a die roll at the top of eyes and then kind of makes a left turn and goes in and it's like, oh my god. So they have to play the same hole for the playoff. They go to the hole. So now their second shot, they both hit the green, but rooms like probably 75 feet away. Okay, he's below so he's got to hit it above the hill, and then again, rolling in he nails it it was like one of the craziest finishes I've ever seen. It might be curious what like the experts say but like go look at it afterward. You're gonna see like ridiculous putting in like watching it live was like "Oh my god. I can't believe it." And like there was like seven people there to cheer for them.

Bryan Bowman 6:05
Yeah, funny. That's funny. I yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing how many lessons you learn. So golf like so many things in life like golf really is a microcosm of life. I'm telling you, man, it's crazy like and the things that there's so many lessons actually learned in golf that transferred to business it's not like and I think anyone I think if anyone's ever like sort of achieved a certain level and something you... It's transferable skills, right it's the same stuff that you need to do when its something else but golf is interesting. And I... Your bias I played anyway. Yeah. So it sounds really glamorous. Like there's different levels of pro golf. It's kind of like, like triple-A baseball. Like it sounds like triple-A, you're almost in the majors. But you're broke like you're eating like old pizza and stuff for dinner. Yeah, like you're, you're so broke. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, you're really, really good, but you're, you're not quite there. So but it was awesome. I mean, I Got to the biggest thing for me. I think Jeff Bezos talks about kind of this risk minimization framework and like regret minimization, I don't know if it's one or the other. But for me, it was like regret minimization was like I was in my early 20s. I was good as an amateur, like really good. And I'm like, and I have to know, I have to know if I'm, like, got what it takes, right? Because I can live with having tried and like known but there's nothing like that feeling when you're, I don't know. I like imagine like the 70-year-old Brian, like, man, like I wish I would have tried you know, so. So. So you got it. You got it. You got to get after it. If you...

Eric Beer 7:36
But I believe that all that played a role and why you're successful today. That's my personal opinion. Well, you face adversity you handle... You face a lot of pressure. And that was trainings for when, you know, business is up and down. You know, sometimes it's...

Bryan Bowman 7:51
And life, which sometimes, you know, you'll take the business problems over the life ones, so...

Eric Beer 7:57
Totally, and also just simple like believing you yourself before anybody else does so that you can actually do it you like in sports that teaches you more than ever. Like, if you don't believe in yourself, then you're out before you even step to the plate or go to take that pot, you got to believe that that ball is going to go in or you're going to hit Yeah. And I hope she with you start seeing and all of a sudden everybody else is now starting to believe when you start doing it. You know what I mean?

Bryan Bowman 8:21
Yes, it's amazing how much maybe the average like person watching at home, they don't realize like how much visual visualization is a part of every professional golfers. Like every scene and I'm not just talking like, "Okay, I'm gonna make this putt." No, they literally they'll visualize the line. They'll visualize it going in the hole. They'll visualize it coming back to them. They'll hear the sound of it going in the cup before they hit a shot. They have the same routine. They visualize the ball leaving coming back. They feel this. I mean, they picture every single thing in their mind when they practice on the range there. They're practicing as if it's the last hole at the US you know They're either practicing the shots. So by the time they're actually doing it on the course, it's like, they've hit that shot so many times and felt like the feeling and seen what's going to happen, right.

Eric Beer 9:10
And that's what you're doing work awesome. So... Cool. So all right. So talk to us. Tell us. Tell us a little bit. So how'd you get to be this expert online, E-commerce marketer? Who's killing it up? Give us some of your gold.

Bryan Bowman 9:22
I mean, the, the truth is like, who knows, man it was not planned. Let's put it that way. It was not planned. I, you know, I played golf. I was always an entrepreneur. Like I started my first business when I was 19. Like real business. And that's the business actually sold so that I could go and pursue this golf dream. Then got my degree became an actuary. So I went to corporate America like I was a consultant doing all that two years of being a consultant working like 80 hour weeks is like, yeah, this isn't gonna work. Like there's no way you could not pay me enough money. I was making good money on the outside. It was like, oh, Brian, you're finally you've made it right? Like this is this is like I get that a living hell like, this is horrible. I can't do this. Yeah, so then I

Eric Beer 10:04
They actually suck you from information. They're just like blood soccer. Oh, man, it is as much information as they can. And then when they're done with you...

Bryan Bowman 10:11
As much output from you, right, like, it just doesn't matter if they, the machine just needs fuel, like, you know, like it doesn't care what happens to your life, like, it takes what it needs, and then it spits you out,

Eric Beer 10:23
I did it a little bit when I would use to talk to like some of these guys that did it for a living professionally, like I was doing it just to meet ends as I was building my business. And these guys had this structure on how they give a little bit but not enough that they have to stay with them for a period of time and they would talk to me about how they went about doing it. I felt like it was like it reminded me of like how the chiropractors they say like they kind of fix you but they don't really you see you can come back the next time.

Bryan Bowman 10:50
Yeah, they gotta spoon-feed the cure, you know?

Eric Beer 10:53
Yeah, I was like this. This is not for me. I'm like, I like that. My obsessive-compulsive I just want to give it all to you right now. And I want to say see results like in 15 minutes? You know? Yeah, so this doesn't add up. But yeah...

Bryan Bowman 11:04
That's funny, man, I hear you, I, I did it, you know, because I felt like it was one of those things. It's like, Alright, I have to do what I'm like meant to do. You know, I can't, I can't do what I want to do now I gotta do what I'm meant to do. Yeah. And man, I couldn't, I couldn't so I was working at so I was working in a consulting company. I couldn't take the hours anymore. It's just I realized I literally like half the guys in that office were divorced. And I mean, they were on their like, second and third marriages. It was like this isn't gonna work. So I ended up going to a traditional kind of role in insurance. actuaries either a consultant or insurance that's pretty much what they do. So I went to insurance company work there and that was I thought, like, that'll be it right? Because I like being an actuary. I will just, I'll just cruise I've worked my 40 hours a week for the next 40 years, you know, whatever. 30 years I'll be good. And that lasted like a year and I was like, I gotta get out of here. I got to go back to doing my own thing because I basically always done my own thing, you know, so I on the side and this is how it started. I was interested in selling stuff online like physical products. So like for years before that, like even when I was still in college going back to get my degree, I was flipping stuff. So I would literally go to Goodwill. And I started selling books. That was the first thing I did I would buy is the craziest thing to me. This is like one of the first marketing lessons I learned before I'd ever read any books about it was like how different buyers have different biases, right? And they buy a certain way and they have certain conversations in their mind and there's just ways that they buy right. So I would buy stuff on eBay. I would literally buy a textbook for five bucks on eBay sell it for 55 on Amazon like that was the arbitrage It was crazy and I couldn't understand they could find the same book but there's just some people that they don't buy on eBay. They don't trust it right that's just their that's their worldview. So I would do that make some extra money. Then I'd go to Goodwill I would find this is kind of gross, dude. I would find used razors like electric razors. Buy them for seven bucks sell them for 50 on Amazon like who would by a user like it had pictures, it was kind of rusty. He rode by on this. Let's discuss that. Understand that. That's another lesson right is you are not your buyer. You know, you figure out what your buyer wants, and it's probably not what you want.

Eric Beer 13:13
Yeah, your junk is somebody gold.

Bryan Bowman 13:15
Yeah, exactly. So so then that's kind of like when we started flipping furniture, that's when we started making extra pretty good money, we'd go to state sales we find like these pieces flip them for a pretty good amount that I always I was always doing kind of the physical product stuff and like listing things on Amazon and eBay. And I guess nowadays, I didn't know what that's what it was called, I guess it's like retail arbitrage. Like that's what it would be your online arbitrage. And then

Eric Beer 13:38
You were, you were like a performance marketer for like, used products?

Bryan Bowman 13:45
Like used products. Yeah, yeah. I mean, actually, you and I kind of was because then my like, at the time, they weren't my in laws yet, but they'd be like, Hey, here's a garage full of stuff like do you want to sell it and you get it? You know, you can take a piece of it. I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. So I'm like listing stuff and getting my cut. Right? Yeah. Because I had a I had a skill set that I was developing and then ultimately what happened was I real I found out about private label. I didn't know this, you know that, you know, this mouse, let's say Logitech buys this, and they put their label on it. But there's a company in China, maybe not the specific product. There's a company in China, they make these, and I can slap Bowman mouse on there. And I didn't know that was a thing, right? I didn't realize that the trek mountain bike, there's another there's Joe's mountain bike. That's the same thing made in the same factory off the same production line. It just has a different brand on it. So we started private labeling our own stuff. It was camping and hiking gear we kind of made up made up this line of products. And long story short man, I was able to actually I'd read four-hour workweek and he talks about in that book, Tim Ferriss talked about negotiating work from home. So I kind of started moving one day at home four days at the office two days at home three days at the office to the point where I was four days at home one day at the office. I was only coming in on Fridays. I basically... Just got my work done. Make sure I was you know, had integrity there got that done. But any of the free time I had I was building this business on the side. And yeah, long story short, we were able to actually transition out of there and that's how I started building e-commerce brands.

Eric Beer 15:14
That's awesome. Yeah, I remember seeing something where, you know, they set up shop in the street, and they had these it was beans and they had these two different beans one in one thermos one the other. They didn't show what the brands were. And they would let the person taste each of the beans and say which one did they like better? And they were both Heinz beans. And they would be like, it just was fun. This one tastes a little saltier. And it's like, in their mind, therefore the opportunity, right? Yeah, it was the same exact thing. But they started doing this thing and like there would be these comments on how this one was different than the other when they were exactly the same. And then they did another test where They took a different brand and Heinz, but they didn't tell them which one they were and some of them liked the other brand better. Right? And then when they asked them, which one would they buy? There was not everyone said Heinz.

Bryan Bowman 16:13
Heinz. Yeah, exactly.

Eric Beer 16:15
No brainer. And it just showed how important brand awareness is. And and just, you know that the marketing part of the business, and yeah, like the whole private labeling, it's, you know, there's insane products out in the world. And it's just who do you trust?

Bryan Bowman 16:31
Exactly. And it's interesting because I think there's more. There's businesses, you know, Warren Buffett would call it a moat. You know, that's why he invest in Coca Cola and Heinz, he actually owns Heinz, they’re... the Berkshire Hathaway's 100% owner, Heinz, see's candies, you know, they're there, they acquire that whole company, and, you know, decades ago, but the point is, he likes to buy moats. And I think that while it's true for certain brands, you know, you're not going to do you have a choice between a Snickers bar and like Joe's chocolate bar or whatever, you know, just chocolate caramel bar, you're not gonna, you're not gonna buy that one to save five cents on your Snickers bar. But that is changing, maybe not for Snickers, but for a lot of different things and physical products. People are okay with the no-name brands and supporting smaller brands and the different customer experience, which is it's amazing. Like, I don't think there's ever been a better time in history to totally agree with what's going on. You know...

Eric Beer 17:24
I think that, you know, to your point, the opportunity is that the smaller brands with the online digital world is able to cater to a certain target demographic, right? So they create this niche market and they're solving the problem better than these bigger brands that have this mass marketing play, where they're just marketing to everybody, where a smaller brands like you know what, I'm gonna focus on this niche, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna take care of those people because I get what they're going through, and I'm gonna do better than anybody and no one else is paying attention to it. And that's a huge opportunity. You know? So, I totally agree a huge opportunity. Cool. Yes. So, so now you started doing your private labels, you're building your brands, you know, and so when did you get into coaching? When did that...?

Bryan Bowman 18:10
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, basically it again, just kind of, I just been, I've been super blessed man like, even though I and maybe part of this is perspective, but I really don't think it's that I think I've just been really blessed and opportunities have appeared. And, you know, I have my own reasons why I think that that's happened and but we started this with a private label stuff. And then I started just documenting my journey. That's all it was. I was literally just, this is back before people were in 200 Facebook groups, right? It's like there weren't as many. And I started a Facebook group and just said, Hey, I'm gonna share my journey selling on Amazon private label. And I had more of a number side. So I was an actuary, which is, you know, I don't know if anyone listen to this doesn't know Ted is right. It's just a numbers and stats guy like math guy. And I kind of had that kind of background. So when I took That and used it in my marketing of my products and understood the numbers, it gave me a huge advantage because everyone else was just emotional. They're just, they're just running up bids, you know, because they think it's a good keyword or whatever, I guess you...

Eric Beer 19:13
100% with what you're saying man, you're speaking my language.

Bryan Bowman 19:17
Yeah. So no, no. And you gotta imagine, imagine it's a world where all these people have rushed into this market. They know nothing about the numbers, it's just pure emotion, right? And it was the Wild West. So like, anybody could just make money doing anything. Well, then I was kind of like, able to just be a little bit sharper. You know, I was documenting that. So I would build these spreadsheets and pivot tables and all this stuff, and I would share it in this group. And that kind of started getting the little traction with like a little audience, right? That's just how it started. I had no intention of ever coaching. I just thought it was a good idea. And then little by little man, people would reach out like hey, really like what the content you're putting out? Would you consider coaching like no, no, don't do it. Do any consulting. No, I don't. I'm just building a brand and by like, the 15th time, you know, Hey, would you could Can I pay you for an hour? And like, Sure, let's try. Let's see. Let's see. And, man, I loved it. I just absolutely loved it. I loved building my stuff was awesome, but I truly loved helping other people break through. And I guess it's not that much of a surprise like I thought I was going to be a teacher like an academia and get a PhD and all that stuff. So I I loved it, man. So yeah, one thing led to another and kind of ran ran with that with that side of the business. And strangely, that fulfilled me more so kind of when that happened focused on

Eric Beer 20:37
How did it... How did it go from? This is pretty cool and fun. And people want to learn about me too. I got some here. This is this is a business like what do you do at that point? How do you take a a fun hobby, like hop on a call once in a while to Alright, now how do we scale this thing?

Bryan Bowman 20:53
Yeah, so the first thing, it's actually it's a tough question because running the two businesses was tough. Cuz like I did love building like our own stuff, our own brands, but I loved the coaching piece too and running both, you know, I didn't, I didn't have a team or anything. So I'm like, half, half of me is doing this and putting out these fires. And I'm 2am and I'm on the phone with China like trying to figure out what's going on with suppliers and all this. And then in this end, I'm maybe doing a little bit of coaching and consulting and thinking that's possible. So ultimately, it was, which was I going to focus on, I did get some help on the brand side. So I was able to focus my time and like my headspace, to the clients. Um, and then it was like, kind of, again, I was a little bit slow. You know, there was probably tons of like, training and stuff on this. I was just kind of figuring it out as I went. Yeah. And I realized, like, oh, wow, I could actually do a lot more if I had a group instead of one on one because everything I did was one on one, getting clients like results like one on one. And then I was like, hey, maybe I should put something together like a course there's something I didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing. Right. And then that's ultimately what I did. I did like a group coaching. A course that was like the first thing I sold it was all for Amazon sellers. And then that branched into off Amazon which is now what we do we we basically our business eCom Underground is 100% helping sellers scale off Amazon. So Shopify primarily, we use some ClickFunnels or any other platform WooCommerce big commerce we got we got people on all of them, I'd say most of them are Shopify, but the whole point is they're trying to scale we don't we don't really work on helping people get started from zero to sale. Yeah, but if they're already selling, we show them the systems, the process, the marketing, the not like the data, everything they need to scale their business. We do have a lot of Amazon sellers, because we got you know, they don't want to be dependent on that platform. It's a great platform to make money, but not so much security. So yeah, that's, that's ultimately, you know, kind of the direction we went in.

Eric Beer 22:46
Yeah, that's a that's a huge market. Because ultimately, what's happening is, no one's walking into stores anymore. So all these brands now need to figure out Oh, my God, how do we make money online? You're now Yeah, you can go to Amazon. You can put your stuff up on Amazon, but one, you do not own your traffic. That's number one. Two is, the amount of rules you need to follow are, it's a challenge, right? And three, and the Amazon is pretty open about that they might do the exact same thing you're doing. If they see that time, if they see that something's really working well, they're gonna compete with you. So you're all...

Bryan Bowman 23:24
Dude, I could give you example after this, because this has been like, you know...

Eric Beer 23:29
So they're getting all this data on your business learning. Okay, well, taking all like, I don't need to figure out what's working or not. This is the highest-selling product, it's selling like gangbusters. Alright, we're gonna go focus here. Right? So like a lot of these brands now are stuck with this. How do we get people to get to our website? How do we get people from a click on Google or Facebook to come to me rather than me having to go to go going to Amazon. So that's why I like where you're at right now. I mean, it's a huge opportunity to help coaches, direct marketers and huge brands. I mean, God bless man.

Bryan Bowman 24:04
It's an interesting time and, and super, I mean, it is really fulfilling now he takes him on like, I mean, who's totally dependent on this platform? And the reality is like, it's hard to have peace of mind because they are and that's the thing is these big marketplaces, you know, I don't want to pick on Amazon, but it's like, just big market that sees another big one that, you know, a lot of the sellers are doing well, but they don't really have true independence and security. And these platforms, you know, they these marketplaces, just, they take a little bit more, a little bit more, and they restrict a little bit more and they restrict a little bit more to the point where you know, because they know they've got you by the tail, so finishing time, man, cuz it's good to like, it's good, you know, they're good places to launch products and to learn how e-commerce works. It's, I always see Amazon is like, living in a dorm room. You know, like when you're in a dorm, you're like, you're kind of independent, but not really like, it's not really like owning your own place and having a job and everything right, but it's more Independent than your parents basement?

Eric Beer 25:01
Totally. Totally.

Bryan Bowman 25:02
That's kind of how I see it.

Eric Beer 25:04
Right. That makes sense. Yeah. So now with where you're at with the business, how do you decide who you want to work with? Do you want to work with the big the big retail brands and go out with like these massive, massive commercial companies? like a, like a Walmart or children's place? Or is it more along the lines of somebody that's selling something on e-commerce, that's SMB and they need to figure it out? And they don't know how to buy traffic? They don't know how to get a click their way. I mean...

Bryan Bowman 25:31
Yeah, yeah, it's good question, man. Because I, I tried the big I actually had opportunities I've worked with, like nine figure brands and I like huge brand. Everyone would know the names like it was it felt like I was back as a consultant. I felt like I was back in the big consultant where it's like, you know, there's the RFP documentation and like, just the contract and I don't know, it just felt like it was soul sucking

Eric Beer 25:55
Right, and the bureaucracy, right and era, the bureaucracy, the RFP They're planning for 2025.

Bryan Bowman 26:02
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So like, I have this business. So yeah, the answer is SMBs. And all we we do is now at the same time, we don't work with people who are just starting, I think that there's just no, there are a lot of good stuff out there to get you started. But honestly, I look at and maybe it's because of how I started, like, I started watching YouTube videos, I listen to podcasts, and I just went out and I did it. And I maybe crashed and burned a little bit, but we figured it out real quick. Then we got to a point really quick where it's like, I knew I couldn't do it on my own. That's when I started investing in coaches and masterminds and all that I've invested heavily in my growth but at first it was a lot of reading. It was a lot of like free stuff initially with e-commerce because you got to just test it out. So that's and I think that to be honest it's all it's mindset man like a lot of the initial like getting started in business, you got to have the right mindset. And I don't I'm not sure if there's it takes it takes the right person I think to like help. take someone from having no mindset of being an entrepreneur to having that like that entrepreneurial grit like that mindset it's that that's a chasm to cross so so for us what we find our sweet spot is like they're already doing some sales and we can help them scale and we have a lady who just joined she was doing like thousand bucks a month in sales and I mean she did three months in she did like 25 grand like last month like she's just like absolutely taken off but now she's got other headaches right because now it's like employee you know all she was used to ordering

Eric Beer 27:29
Yeah, supply chain...

Bryan Bowman 27:32
Right like she was used to ordering a box and product. Yeah, she's thinking like containers, right? Like now she's got to figure all that out.

Eric Beer 27:38
Yeah, it's like small kids. small problems. Big kids big problems.

Bryan Bowman 27:41
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But you want to have that problem, but that's way more fun, dude. It's so much more fun.

Eric Beer 27:46
Give us an idea of like, when you get a client that's got some sales there. They're not really doing much like What's that? What's that framework look like in the 90 days of so give me an idea so that when the people that are listening here could get a little gold from you for free. Because, you know, that's what you were doing. So yeah, let's get it out to you, you know, give you take on a client like that, like, What? What happens? What do you how do you get somebody from that thousand to $25k?

Bryan Bowman 28:14
Yeah, so um, so the first thing is, there's so many things. So the first thing is we do want to get a good idea of what's their current process. So when we talk first, when we talk with them, we're like, hey, how do you get a customer right now from stranger to customer? What does that look like? And most of the time, it's going to be like referral traffic, it's going to be maybe some Facebook ads, but a lot of it's kind of word of mouth. That's, that's what they'll say. And that's usually why they're kind of at that thousand or $2,000 a month mark. Um, because they don't really have a way to like turn the faucet on profitably, and to actually scale Yeah, um, so then first we make sure that you know if they tell us because here's the thing, great marketing will never be bad math. Right, Eric. So if they tell us now, we've tried everything you can imagine with paid ads. We can never get it to work. We can't sell us Go product with paid ads, like, I don't know if I'm gonna be to help them like because that my core thing like, I'd like to think I'm a good ad. I'm a good marketer and a good advertiser. But, you know, zero time, you know, zero times 100 is still zero, you know what I mean? So it's like if they've got no result, right? I don't you know, I'm not the influencer marketing guy. I don't know how to do that. I mean, I know more than the average person, right? Yeah, but I don't. That's not my that's not my thing.

Eric Beer 29:26
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, the challenge with that with people that just jump in and don't understand the media arbitrage and buying media is every click has a value. You might not necessarily be selling product, on the clicks that you're buying. But there's a lot of things that could be playing into why you're not getting a sale. Right? It could be your marketing, it could be your headlines, it could be your You're too expensive, or you're paying up too much for the click, right. So there's, there's so many things that you can get into it the once you dive in and look at the numbers, and I'm sure you do that all the time. So Yeah, yeah,

Bryan Bowman 30:01
Exactly, so just look at what’s that acquisition look like? What are they currently doing? Is it different than what we do? If it's not different and it looks like there's some promise, I usually can look at an ad account and see right away like, yeah, I could see, three, four or five things like this is done. Right? You know what I'm talking about? Yes, instantly. And those are, that's when you get like, the chills and you're like, Alright, let's go. Let's rock and roll. Because you know, we can help you.

Eric Beer 30:26
Yeah, I totally can help you.

Bryan Bowman 30:27
And then the back end, that's the biggest thing with e-commerce that I see even successful brands just they hate money and they're just not taking it off the table. Is is the back end what's your follow up look like? How are you maximizing LTV and you know, lifetime value of the customer. So many businesses are front end acquisition, you know, hunting mentality, go out, kill, eat, go the next day, kill eat, and they're not doing anything to farm their current leads and their product and their best prospects, which are their customers. And that's I think what sets us apart is like in our coaching programs, and even our agency side is like He's got a back end process that is constantly testing to see how do we eke out another 5% of LTV another 2%?

Eric Beer 31:08
Yeah, yeah, man, you should be selling for SurveyDetective. This is I mean, that's exactly it. It's it's all about just building your list, right? Like you, you. It's so funny you say that, because I see a lot of people do that. They'll buy a click somewhere. That's not their media. And if they don't make money, it's over.

Bryan Bowman 31:26
Like, right away. Yeah, if they

Eric Beer 31:27
When you are like putting so much pressure on themselves to make money on the first click, whereas you don't necessarily have to be profitable on that first click, as long as you capture some information, and you can create that connection with what you're describing your follow up sequences, because over a period of seven days, 30 days, two years, whatever, what's the value of that customer? Or maybe they buy from you every two months, but when they do they spend 250 bucks, right? So it's like dang over you. So, you know, people absolutely don't get that part. So...

Bryan Bowman 32:03
And the other thing is understanding, right? That there's a critical mass that it's not. It's there's like, it's two, there's two elements, right? One is how long before you, you capture the value of that lead? And two is what's the critical mass and number of leads before the numbers start working out because I see people all the time, they're like, I got 50 people on my email list, I paid for these clicks. No one's converted, like 50 people, man, like, there's a critical mass where it's different for every market, it might be 2000 leads, it might be 3000. I don't know where all of a sudden, oh, it starts working. Totally. And then, you know, so there's, there's a, like a psychological like components. There's like a mindset.

Eric Beer 32:43
Plus, like, if you think about it, if you're going after cold leads, you're creating a pattern interruption. And what people are looking to do is they're looking to meet a stranger and ask them to marry them that day, and they say, yes, you know what I mean? Like, it's the same way as like, you're asking somebody to buy something. They were scrolling on Facebook and had no idea who you were. And you somehow got their attention. They click they started to look a little bit. They showed some interest but they just weren't ready to buy. But those are unbelievable leads. But if you didn't sell it a lot of you're like, oh it didn't work.

Bryan Bowman 33:15
I think I first the first time I heard this I think it was current is Frank Kern who talked about this and it like, stuck with me is this idea that in the pool of people and I've since like, I think I found the studies on this. I know he talked about it, it's a great reminder that there's let's say, you know, 100 out of 100 people that you're going to show your ad to especially with interruption marketing that only two to 3% of the market is ready in any given market selling cars you're selling Bluetooth mouse's you're selling anything, only two to 3% is ready to buy today right now. Totally. Like that's just who they are. know they're ready to buy a benchmark we model usually between one and 3% on any credit card sale when we're buying or buying Yeah, so those are the ones that everyone's going after it That's where the water is bloody right? That's all the sharks are in there going after those people there. That's the hunt. And then I think it's, it's we use, we use 40%. But it's like, there's about 40% that are willing to buy, they're willing and able in the next two to 90 days, right in that window up to 90 days, they're gonna make a purchase. It's just gonna take them a little time and then you got the other roughly 50% 55% that will buy in 90 days or later. Yeah, and those people like whatever when they buy they buy, you know, you can't run a business trying to capture value two years from now, you know, you get two years to capture.

Eric Beer 34:36
I did a, I don't know what episode it was. But a while back, I did something showing how you segment and I used segmenting by buying behavior. I think I made like five or six segments up with what you just described, which was like the impulse buyer, and the logical buyer, the person that needs proof, and the person that I'll come back to it later, and the ways that you are going to go and get them to make that purchase than theirs. An 11th-hour buyer who's going to buy it, you just have to end date for them that way and create that urgency and scarcity like so, like, all those things that you're talking about, is that process on the back end for your follow up sequences. So that's, that's...

Bryan Bowman 35:16
Yeah, like that's, I mean, that's essentially what we bake exactly that's what you bake into your cart abandonment into your, you know, post-purchase stuff so, but what's interesting is how no one's competing for that two to 90 day period. Like it's that's the blue ocean. Yeah, e-commerce I know for sure. Totally. That's the spot.

Eric Beer 35:36
You don't have any competition at that point. Because now they're on your list and you're not paying for the click anymore, right? You're just pressing send an email, and that's costing you

Bryan Bowman 35:46
It's shocking how few people just you know, hit send.

Eric Beer 35:50
And they don't because they don't realize it, and it's also a tedious work and it takes time and a lot of thought around what copy to use, how to get it set up. They're intimidated by technology.

Bryan Bowman 36:01
Systems, man, right? Like once, once the system is built, it's done you just

Eric Beer 36:05
That's why you're here, man. That's why you're on the top of the mountain.

Bryan Bowman 36:08
You go, don't people don't run businesses. You just hire people to run systems. That's all it is. Totally, totally.

Eric Beer 36:15
Well, yeah, it makes sense. So after you're, you're looking at them and you look at your first year, you're checking out their customer acquisition strategy. You're looking at their back end on what they're doing afterwards. Is that it? Is that...

Bryan Bowman 36:27
Yeah, primarily. Listen, we're looking at where they're at. What's the current? What's the current stuff we're working with? How did they acquire customers? What are their margin, you know, is the business model again, you can't be bad math with great marketing. So what is the math look like and their business? Once we look at all that, then we take a clear look at where they want to be. You know, if someone tells me Oh, in the next year, you know, we're at 1000 a month we'd like to get to a million a month. I don't know. I try to think I'm trying to think of our best success story. They got close, but not quite So and that was extraordinary, nothing ordinary about them that will probably not happen again to most people. So that's probably too big of a reach. Right? So now we got to dial them back Hey, is this realistic? Does that make does that is that good for you? Right? I want to make sure it's mutually beneficial and it's a good fit for everyone. Yeah, and then from there if that makes sense then we talk about hey, this is what we do kind of walk through the process basically have two options right you can be in a group coaching program or you could be on our one on one we don't really take one on one spots anymore but um, but yeah, that's about it, man. Honestly, it's looking at I heavily look at the numbers because you know, the marketing we can always you can always test marketing and tweak marketing and it's really important I'm not saying it's not I just think that sometimes the two sides of the same coin right you need the marketing and the metrics and I think marketing is a sexy piece because marketers market so they make that really really sexy. No one markets metrics.

Eric Beer 37:58
Exactly. The filter Math is where it gets really fun. Yeah. When you start looking at it, it's like, Okay, well, I did $1,000 this month, and I sold 10 products. Okay, and I did that over 30 days. So how can I do that the same way? You want 10,000? How many do you need to sell? How many days and then what you pay for that? And it's like, all right, when you start making this entire like sheet of have all the numbers, it starts to become realistic. And then all of a sudden numbers start to grow. And you're like, Oh my god, I just went from 1000 to 25,000. And like, I don't know how that it seems so simple. Meanwhile, like it was like earlier, you were freaking out about it because you just in your mind, you're going 1000 to 25,000 it's like that's why he went like I want to make $10,000 a month. Okay, great. A lot of people do. So how do you want to get there? Right? Okay, so if you break it down, it's was that in a 30 day? 350 bucks a day. So how can you make 3050 bucks a day, right? If you want So leads let's, let's go sell leads for $1 and get paid $2. Now you got to get 30 to 50 leads a day, and you're 10 grand a month. So it's like when you start to, you know, scale it back that way, because realistic, you know, it's like, and now it's like all of a sudden 10 now turns into 20 and 100 grand a month. You know, like, that's the key to the metrics that you're talking about. And I totally relate to that.

Bryan Bowman 39:24
No, man, it's webinar. That's it - webinar.

Eric Beer 39:29
I'm still working on my webinar. I'm still trying to figure out...

Bryan Bowman 39:33
The answer is... The answer is webinar.

Eric Beer 39:36
Perfect webinar.

Bryan Bowman 39:37
Yeah.

Eric Beer 39:37
Do you know anybody has the perfect webinar?

Bryan Bowman 39:40
I know. I know, the imperfect webinar. I've done lots of those.

Eric Beer 39:44
That's fine. Yeah, totally. I'm gonna have one of those one day, one day when they when I can get to it. That's cool. So if anybody wanted to be a part of your group coaching, how would they go about finding you?

Bryan Bowman 39:56
Yeah, so I mean, if you check us out on ecomunderground.com, you get a little kind of spiel on what we do. And there'll be some resources there. The best thing that we've got that I think is, it's good for both sides. huge value for anyone who wants to come in for it's our free challenge. We do different types of them. So sometimes it's an email marketing one sometimes to Facebook ad one, but it's all e-commerce centric. You learn a lot of lessons. I think that's the one thing I would advise to anyone right now, if you know this kind of this new economy that we live in, you know, the founder of Shopify, the CEO Tobi Lutke, he says, there's two things he said he said one buyers that would have bought online in 2030 are buying in 2020. Like that's how dramatic the shift has been. And they're seeing Black Friday numbers every day like that they would have only seen once a year they're seeing them every single day now which is like makes us all wonder what is Black Friday going to be like this year. So my point is what people should be doing right now. It doesn't even matter like what and I guess I'm speaking all the listeners. It doesn't matter what you think. You're going to get into start sharpening your sword on this idea of online marketing. And, you know, the concepts are all transferable. We all as marketers, so here's the marketing lesson, we try to make things very niche-specific, right? We, you know, there is, you hear this idea the riches are in the niches it's true, we if you speak about something in a very specific context, it seems more valuable. But here's the reality, the Lego pieces are all the same, you got to know how to get leads, right? You got to know how to nurture him, you got to have your product, you have to have your pipeline full of leads, you're going to have a certain amount that convert today, certain tomorrow certain that you got to nurture them, got to have a good conversion rate. Gotta have good follow up. Marketing is marketing, learn the skills. So that's what I'm saying is like, you know, try different things. Watch free stuff, listen to shows like this. Join the chat, you know, join challenges, if they're free doesn't cost you anything. And even our e-commerce marketing one or e-commerce challenge. I know you're going to learn things that are e-commerce, you know, I'm going to talk about in the context of e-commerce, but the applied anything you can you can use that to go sell cars like it. It's the same, it's the same stuff. Um, so that's what I would advise people to do is just start getting familiar with this whole landscape. And like Jay Abraham would say, knowing how someone does it in a totally separate vertical than yours might give you some really good ideas that are new and fresh in your space. You know, you're in real estate, but you see how e-commerce sellers do it online. Take an idea there and apply it in your real estate business and it'll blow up. No, it could or it could blow up.

Eric Beer 42:31
Totally. That's, that's amazing. I did that. I remember one time, I was trying to figure out a marketing play. And I went, I went to Google, if you ever heard of it google.com and I just I googled the best Superbowl commercials of all time. Okay, started just watch the commercials, trying to get an idea of how to make one of those things relevant to what I was doing, but just the same theme of why that thing kicked off from I mean, who's watching subo? Hundreds of millions of people, right? Yeah, the best one, like people love for some reason. So I started looking at it and be like, why did they love that? And then try to figure out how to take that, that that theme that you're talking about and apply it to, let's say, you know, online marketing list building, you know, if I, if I'm going to be launching SurveyDetective, and I need to do that, right. So, yeah, there's got to be something, there's going to be some theme, and I got to figure out how to apply it. And the best part is you model it off of something that's working in a different industry, so they don't care because you're not competitive with them. Right? The problem is like people go to their competitors, and then they start knocking off their competitors. And I'm all for hacking, go for it. You know, you need to know the competitive landscape and what they're doing, how they're pricing, you know, what are they marketing? Is it working or not to understand, but you really shouldn't be knocking off like your competitor, like, you know what I mean? versus if it's like, let's say I come up with a good idea, and what I'm doing is lead gen and using surveys Then you go and you replicate that in your e-commerce business that does great. Go for it, man. You know...

Bryan Bowman 44:06
And those are usually the best ideas come from because no one else in your space is doing if you do the same thing as everyone else, you get lost in the noise. Yeah, and you do something that's different. And it stands out. And again, it's totally normal in this other space. But then in your niche, it's it's fresh. So yeah, that's the main thing is learn kind of how other people are doing it, learn the basic rules and like marketing and then you just start testing stuff. So So yeah, so that's what we do. We have an e-commerce challenge and we kind of picked different topics. So when we got coming up is a email, email marketing. So we'll talk about kind of our email marketing strategy and we get templates and resources. So it's, I'm a firm believer in, in results in advance give you I'm giving people a reason to pay attention because there's a lot of people trying to grab your attention. So we tried to give him a really good reason to stop and actually ignore, ignore someone and pay attention. No...

Eric Beer 45:00
Totally. And, you know, I'll even say one of the things that you'll want to do in addition to that is just go to a guy like Brian who's done it, and you'll Fast Track your success. like yours in events. I mean, he's gone through it, right? I've been through lead gen for almost 20 years now. So I've been through the downtimes. And the good times you've been through the downtimes and the good times by being around you. It's, you know, people sometimes will hear like, all right, and I don't know what you charge, but some will charge 25 grand. Right? And you're like, Man, you crazy. That's, that's really expensive. And I think to myself, but wait a second. You okay, What school do you go to? I went to Syracuse. Great, how much you pay her about 75 grand a year. Okay, whether your mom did it, you took out student loans. Okay, so you spent 300 K, and now you're trying to figure out what to do with yourself, right? But you're telling me now this guy over here who's making millions of dollars a year is going to tell you how he's doing it for 25 K, think about that for a second, right. And when you think about that mindset, it's like, Uh huh, wait a second. Yeah. So that guy's gonna tell me how he's making money. Yep. And exactly how he's met yet. Okay, great. So your return on investment could be in less than 30 days, possibly, if you if you really, you know, dig in and go after it. So it's like, it's a bargain, you should be charging 300 grand, you know what I mean? Because I remember not even turning them into like a entrepreneur, who can....

Bryan Bowman 46:23
I remember the first time honestly, and I remember the first time when I joined my first mastermind is 25 grand. And it basically got me like to live meetings and like a Facebook group. Like, you know, it was, it was like, but I remember thinking, I don't have this. I don't have this money. Like, this is crazy. I'm like, but I was like a leap of faith. And it was one of those things where I just knew like if I could get like, in you know, like, it's almost like you buy your way in like you can like earn your way in over 10 years. Are you going to buy your way in and cut a check? Yeah, and it changed everything and so much of It was like, Yeah, you got the tactics and you got the fancy ideas off of the, the leader of this group, but you got everyone else and what everyone else was doing and like, like we were just talking about, you would see what's happening in one vertical. And you do it in yours, right? You don't have to think through a brand new idea. You're just like, okay, the numbers are there. It's working. Let's test it. And if that one doesn't work, oh, there's another vertical that they're doing something totally different. Oh, there's another one. They're doing something totally different. Yeah. And, you know, you've skipped to the front of the line, that's...

Eric Beer 47:28
You don't even realize the value you're getting. I mean, it's the same as you like, I never believed in any of this stuff. And when I had the opportunity to join the inner circle, which was at 50 k at the time, I remember telling my wife Sally, and she's like, Are you crazy? And I remember thinking about it for a day. And my gut just told me to do it. Like I just, I really liked what Russell was putting out in the market, and I, I felt the connection. And you know, I love that I was around him, but like, I wouldn't know you. If I do that same thing. The same way.

Bryan Bowman 48:00
Yes.

Eric Beer 48:01
It's fast-tracked my success in this market and the ability to listen and be around people like you, when I never thought I would have an event and be on stage and it's very realistic now, if I want to do it, it's going to happen like and, and earlier on, it's like, no way. This is crazy. So like, dude, I totally agree with you, man. It's like, Fast Track your success. Get around, like somebody who you feel comfortable with. And I know there's a lot people that say they, they do stuff and then if you get burned, it kind of sucks. Because that does happen. And it happens. It happens. But people we were curious, you got to be more curious than like, don't you suggest a lot of people out there and there's a lot of things at work. So you got to kind of...

Bryan Bowman 48:44
And ask for you know, so don't be afraid to ask, hey, like, you know, some success story like, what's the process like you know.

Eric Beer 48:52
Proof of concept.

Bryan Bowman 48:53
Exactly. Don't be afraid to ask for that stuff. And you should, you should ask. But the bottom line is you got to be more curious than afraid. You got to Put your you got to step out there. And yeah, it anyway, I agree, man, I just effect I was able to meet you and i think other people too they're like the real deal like you're the real deal. There's a lot of people who talk about Legion, I mean more than probably a little bit you know there's a lot of people talk about e-commerce too. But probably more than e-commerce. There's a lot of guys that talk about lead gen and strategies and because it's been around for so long, and most of them are just regurgitating some other material that they heard about that they've never actually done. And it's funny, like I've had a hard time getting to where I am today, realizing all the stuff I know about lead gen can actually make a difference. I never realized that.

Eric Beer 49:40
Yeah, from being around you people. And it's great. And you know, I'm thankful. So listen, guys, Brian Bowman, I could talk to him for hours. He's a regular This is this the regular call that I have with him, where we talk about 25 different ideas and things are awesome. And it's like, I mean, it's just gold, right and he's got these challenges. He's running he's got one coming up for Email Marketing Challenge. You can go check them out ecomunderground.com and any social channels you do anything on Instagram, Facebook,...

Bryan Bowman 50:12
I'm the worst at it.

Eric Beer 50:13
Not your thing?

Bryan Bowman 50:13
I'm on Facebook, I tried the Instagram thing, it's just too distracting and I am like, I am like the minimalist life. I really am.

Eric Beer 50:21
Dude, I think that's actually exciting for a lot of people listening because it's... A lot of people are afraid to go online and be that influencer and be that attractive character and put themselves out there. And you're doing unbelievably well and you don't do any of that. And that's refreshing because it looks like you have to be you know, pushing yourself and publishing content about yourself. And that's what everybody tells people right? So it's like, that's refreshing and exciting for people listening. You just don't have to do that.

Bryan Bowman 50:49
What you need to do is if you want to be a coach or a consultant, get results for people, and I promise you they're going to be so happy to share their stories and document those stories and just keep at it and you will be shocked at how many times they'll send people your way. People will find out about you. You know, you got to publish, you have to put your name out there but don't feel like you have to be on seven different platforms and every day having a phone in your face. And hey, listen, the reality is Eric if it would have made me more successful, it's not a trade I'm willing to make. I... There's, there's a life that we want to live, my family, there's a balance we want to have. We've been extremely blessed. And you know what, after a certain amount, it ain't worth it. That money ain't worth it to do something that you don't want to do. If you love it. If you love having a camera in your face, and you love taking the pictures and put them... By all means go and do it. But don't compromise a good life. You got to know thyself, right? You got to know who you are. And yeah, for a few extra bucks and a little more attention.

Eric Beer 51:51
Yeah. You do you. Do you. There you go. Well, it's good to hear results matter. That's, it's...

Bryan Bowman 51:57
I think it's all it matters, man. If you do that everything else falls into place but if you try to make up for it all, you know, the person who tries to make up for it all with a lot of hype and attention in marketing and the right headlines and the webinars and the self and all this and the videos and the lives it ain't gonna matter, so... Maybe for a short term it will put in long term it won't matter.

Eric Beer 52:18
Well guys you just got a treat this guy's awesome.

Bryan Bowman 52:20
Appreciate you man.

Eric Beer 52:20
You're an all star man. So again, ecomunderground.com check out Brian. I appreciate you coming on. Hopefully... Hopefully we get to see each other in person one day with all this stuff going on. We will get somewhere somehow. Maybe you'll take some money off me on the golf course. You know, Actually got let's flip it. I'll bring you and you'll be my ringer. And we'll team up and play somebody else. They won't know about you.

Bryan Bowman 52:45
I used to do that in Vegas. I got some more stories for you Eric, off the record.

Eric Beer 52:50
We'll save that for next time. Awesome. All right, man. Well, be well thanks for everything.

Bryan Bowman 52:55
Alright, Eric. good talking to you man.

Eric Beer 52:57
You too, bye.

Would you like to learn how I built my business using other people's money? If so, then go join my 21-day challenge at performancemarketersecrets.com. I look forward to meeting you and welcome you into my family. And remember, results don't lie, but the people who don't have any tier. Thanks for listening.