How to Build a Thriving 6-Figure Photography Business While Living a Good Life | With Sarah Petty & Erin Verbeck
Learn how to grow your photography business and attract the right clients while having a life with Sarah Petty and Erin Verbeck of Joy of Marketing. Make sure to tune in now!
photography business, business coach, business coaching, sarah petty, erin verbeck, joy of marketing
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How to Build a Thriving 6-Figure Photography Business While Living a Good Life | With Sarah Petty & Erin Verbeck

How to Build a Thriving 6-Figure Photography Business While Living a Good Life | Interview with Sarah Petty & Erin Verbeck Featured Image, Eric Beer, Performance Marketer

How to Build a Thriving 6-Figure Photography Business While Living a Good Life | With Sarah Petty & Erin Verbeck

Photographers can’t make decent money and live a good life at the same time.

Well, that’s already a thing of the past!

Joining me in today’s episode of Performance Marketer are two of my friends, Sarah and Erin.

Sarah and Erin had done remarkable things even before the internet became a thing. And they are here to generously share with us how they built a thriving photography business while caring for their family and living a well-balanced life.

They’re the living proof that between having a life and money, you don’t necessarily have to pick one; you can have both!

If you love to take pictures and turn them into a profitable business, or if you already have a photography business and are wondering how you can get consistent bookings while having a life, then this one is for you. Make sure to tune in to today’s episode!

Let’s dive right in!

 

 

 

How It All Started

 

Like most of the stories we’ve heard, Sarah and Erin started working for someone else before they decided to build their own business.

They worked together at an ad agency. But when Sarah got pregnant with her twins, she realized that she didn’t want to go back and work full-time at the ad agency.

And since she had photography as a hobby while working her way up the success ladder, she decided why not turn that hobby into a business.

Then, it wasn’t long enough before Erin decided to join Sarah. 

It was in 2008 that they partnered and, from then, scaled up Sarah’s portrait photography business into something bigger!

But what made Erin leave her successful corporate job and join Sarah’s?

Well, it was the promise that she could have a life and make money at the same time while building the business.

 

How to Scale a Photography Business

 

Creating a business doesn’t mean you have to make one from scratch all the time. Sometimes, you have to copy someone’s business concept and make it better.

Remember, though, that there will always be room for new businesses. Never consider that the market is already saturated, and you’ll be left with nothing. Always consider competition a healthy indicator that your market is thriving!

But how would you scale up in the photography industry?

The answer- provide better service to your customers.

Most photographers fall into the trap that the way to do things in this business is to take pictures for a client, charge them $200, and give all the digital files to them.

They’re missing a ton by only doing this!

What Sarah and Erin teach their students is high service customization. In this system, you can charge anywhere from $200 to $4,000 per session.

And in Sarah’s case, she rarely gets an order below $10,000. That’s how you get your life back and provide more value to your clients with customized service.

 

You Can Have a Life and Make Money 

 

Once you consider photography not just merely handing out digital files but piecing together a beautiful story through the captured photos, you’ll get clients who’d pay for your service repeatedly.

You don’t have to lower your price to get ahead of your competitors.

In this photography business model that Sarah and Erin built over the years (even before Twitter went live), you’ll be getting the freedom to enjoy the life you want while making money.

Instead of the traditional style of photography, this system allows you to build high-quality wall art that clients will cherish forever.

If you’re interested in diving deeper into this topic, tune in to today’s episode HERE, and visit JoyofMarketing.com for more information on the said online course.

You don’t wanna miss this!

If you have any questions or you want to suggest a topic for the podcast, shoot me a message on social media or in my text community (917-636-1998) and let me know!

If you’d like to get bonus Performance Marketer content, sign up for my SurveyDetective VIP waitlist!

🕵️‍♂️  Sign up for the SurveyDetective VIP Waitlist HERE

I’m looking forward to hearing from you! 

See you next time!

 

Listener Love…

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Transcript…

Read Full Transcript

Eric Beer 00:00
Hey, what's up Performance Marketers? Welcome! Today we got a treat. Today, we've got two ladies that I've known for few years, met them at a mastermind. They are amazing. They're in the photography business. And they've done some remarkable things. I've seen them grow almost 10x from the day I met them till today. They're just really, really good at listening, hearing, modeling and executing on things that they see that are working. And they're doing it in a niche in the photography business, that you know, people, people don't think they can make money. If you love to take pictures, this is, this is something you want to listen to. If you're somebody that loves take pictures and wants to turn into a business 1,000%. If you have a photography business, you want to listen to this. If you're somebody that's sitting at home, and you want to be with your family, and you want to raise your kids, could you make money from home? The answer is absolutely, yes, we've talked about this all the time. And one way to do it is in the photography business. Right, I see that a lot of these photographers, they feel like, they're just their photography businesses is running their lives, they're just always being pulled in all different kinds of directions. And this whole digital file of taking pictures, giving them digital files, and just feeling like you're a commodity, they they change all of this. So today, we're gonna have Sarah Petty, and Erin Verbeck, of Joy of Marketing. Come on. And they are two amazing, amazing women. They help professional photographers learn how they can be there for their families, they can be there for when their kids are graduating kindergarten and putting them on the bus and losing a tooth. At the same time, they can also run a thriving photo business. In their theory, their feelings are you don't have to choose between a career and a family, you can do both. And they're going to tell us how they teach that to their students here today on Performance Marketers. So stick around, check them out! They are, they're gonna give you just a an eye opening treat of ways that you can make money by just taking pictures. So you're going to enjoy this. So let's dive in. Boom!

Eric Beer 02:38
I spent the last 17 years building my eight figure performance business without using any of my own money, working with some of the most brilliant direct response marketers in the world today. Now I'm looking for entrepreneurs to join my affiliate army, built on ethics, transparency, and good old hard work. Join me to change the perception of how people view the greatest business in the world, affiliate marketing, and follow along, as I learn, apply and share performance marketing strategies, working with some of the brightest people on the planet. My name is Eric Beer, and welcome to the Performance Marketer Podcast.

Eric Beer 03:20
Let's just get started then Sarah. First, let's start off with telling us how you started this business. Why you started this business 18 years ago from today? What happened? Yeah,

Sarah Petty 03:30
Yeah, kind of created itself through demand. Both of my businesses did, which was really fascinating. I was working at an ad agency, which is where Erin and I met, we actually worked together. And I got pregnant with twins, had a crazy pregnancy, spent the year.. the year it was like 33 week pregnancy, but most of it was in the hospital. And when I had these little babies, I was so grateful to have them in the world. And I realized I didn't want to go back to working full time at the ad agency. We just grinded, I loved it. But we worked all the time. And I'd been doing photography for fun. This was in the film days, it was pre digital, it was in the late 90s. And I thought gosh, if I can just if I can just make enough with my photography, I can be a stay at home like a sort of stay at home mom, but also have some money. And even you know both Erin and I have MBAs and I've been a marketing director. But still when I went to start my own business, they don't teach you that in business school, how to price a photography business, how to how to have a sales process, how to do all of that so quickly, I realized I was not making money. And I had these little babies at home and we went from living on two good incomes with two people to one income and four people. Know that math does not work very long. So I had to figure out how to make money as a portrait photographer. So I doubled down everything I had. I invested in learning you know, there was no internet really back then. It was a little baby. There were no Facebook groups. So learning I had to physically leave home and go one on one to study with different people; took me a couple of years got it systematized. I was named one of the most profitable photography businesses in the United States, and realized, oh my gosh, like, this is perfect, because I can make money and be at home. I had childcare like two to three days a week. And it was amazing. And I started getting asked to speak, because everyone was like, Oh, my gosh, how are you doing this? How are you doing this. And that's when drip marketing was born. This was about oh, five. And it was great. I created a little continuity program and had like, that was my only product, right? Had a website and this one products were burning CDs in the basement for every month, people would pay like $35 to get a CD and all this education. And it was, it was it was interesting, because I would go to one business and the other would go down, right, my studio would go down. And then I'd be like, alright, I'll be right back. And I'd run over here to marketing. And I'd be like, I'll be right back. And so it's sort of doing this juggling game of revenue up and down, up and down. And Erin and I had worked together before and we were always like, we need to do something together. And through a crazy random little twist of events, we found ourselves together at a co worker, a former co workers bridal shower down in Texas. I live in Illinois. And by the end of the weekend, we had.. we had created the future. So we partnered up, that was in 2008. Or was it 2009, was 2009. Sorry, 2008 when I started the continuity. So Aaron came in because it was crazy, because I knew there was potential, but I didn't want either business to go away. And so, you know, we got together and figured out how to how to scale. So that really gets you to us joining together in 2009.

Eric Beer 06:49
Wait, did you this just this all happened in two days. It's like Pam and Tommy, you guys.

Erin Verbeck 06:57
The funny thing was it actually was kind of like that, because when I left to go to the on the trip, I remember telling my husband, oh man, this is gonna stink, because I'm gonna have to tell Sarah no, like that. I'm not going to do this that like, this is the time.. this isn't the opportunity. And I was driving back, it was between Dallas and Houston. And I was driving back home to Dallas. And I remember calling Chris from a gas station. And Sarah was in the car with me. And I was like you had, so I'm going to tell her yes.

Sarah Petty 07:29
I'm sure he was like what was in corporate, she was the golden girl. She was on the fast track up and working a lot. But very, you know, they, she was held in very high esteem. And she was the one. And so it was it was a big deal for her to make that decision to like go all in with me. And amazing ever since like, we're always...

Eric Beer 07:52
I like so sweet. So Erin, you just had to walk into your office and be like, here's my two weeks. I'm leaving. Thanks for everything.

Erin Verbeck 08:00
Yeah, so I, it was really hard because I had, I was working really closely with the CMO. And, you know, I was being groomed for you know, some really big things and to have to come in and say listen, like, this was not my plan. This is not at all what I wanted to, you know, I thought my path was going to be but this is what's right for me. And this is what's best for me. And they were super supportive. And I didn't give two weeks notice, I gave more notice than that because I it was funny because on my last day, my actual boss, my... my direct boss, he said, he came to me and he said you have to go now, you need to go now. And I was like no, no, no, I just need to finish a few more things for you guys. I need to make sure everything's okay that you like you aren't in a bad way or anything like that. And he goes, Erin we'll be okay. It's all right. You need to go like go home now.

Erin Verbeck 08:55
Because I had so much I felt you know, like I felt bad leaving that behind. And you know, of course, never looked back after that. I think the first day I was like, oh gosh, like, took me about like, a few hours to figure out how to use a Mac again. Because I had been on a PC that was like my biggest struggle of like the transition. It was like after that I never looked back again. But that was that first few hours. I was like, Oh man, what did I do?

Eric Beer 09:22
I look up to you. I mean, I I can't relate to that. Because I've I've never had a job that paid me enough money that made me think about do I do I want to leave? Right? So I look at some of the people out in the world that are getting paid really well. They're talented and they have a good secure job. And for them to be able to just you know pick up and leave is really hard. I mean, I started my company because my business that I was working for and that was probably the most money I've ever made from like a job went out of business. So like I was stuck with this, what do I do? And then I ended up starting my business, but like I always think still till today like what I've had like the, to, like, you know, walk in and say goodbye. And I'd like to think I would have I like to think that that my my destiny was there but I don't know, I don't know. So like, you know, I commend you for doing something like that it's scary. You certainly when you have like too good thing going like when it's when it's like, Alright, you got nothing to lose, it's easy, but like, you have a job and you have something it's, it's tough. So for Sarah to talk into that she must been a great saleswoman.

Erin Verbeck 10:26
She is like the best salesman. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, like because I was such a no. And then, you know, like you said, and two days later, it was a it was a yes. And it's like, never not been a yes. Like since like, I've never even thought about going back in that in that capacity. But the thing is, is because I wasn't entrepreneurial, because no one in my family was entrepreneurial. I hadn't been around that. So I didn't have that desire that burning myself, I needed someone else to see that in me to say, you know, what, like, this could be something amazing. And but like, let's do this together. And, and I wouldn't have I think that's what I'm so grateful for is that like, that would never have been my path. I never would have come across that. Like, I would literally still be in corporate and then my whole career would have been spent in corporate. And that's okay. Like, that's a great option for a lot of people. I just, I think a big part of me wouldn't. And what I am capable of wouldn't have been realized had Sarah not seen that and found that and brought that.

Sarah Petty 11:27
For sure. I think the biggest thing that sold Erin is our platform right - away from the golden handcuffs. That's what people call it, right? You're making so much money that you can't leave, you don't want to leave. And I know, I'm sure some people were like, Oh, she like this, you know, businesses fail every day. So I'm sure they're like, Oh, poor Erin. She's such a sucker. Right?

Erin Verbeck 11:44
I had a friend who literally said that, like she was like, What are you going to do? What What What's your friendship going to be? I remember having those conversations like, she's like, I just, I'm worried about this for you. And I'm like, I guess in my mind, I was like, I wasn't living outside of my means to begin with. So it wasn't a case of like, oh, gosh, this is this is going to be, you know, could be detrimental to my family. I didn't have any kids yet. So it was like, just my husband and I it's like, okay, if it doesn't work, I'll just go get a job somewhere else. Like, I think that in my mind was like, I can just go and I knew that I could probably go back if I needed to. I had great relationships, right. I had a great sense. Like, I could go back. It's not the end of the world.

Sarah Petty 12:23
But I think but I think what what truly tipped the scale was what we teach our students is you can have a life and make money. And Erin was working all the time. And she was married. And they thought about having a family one day, but she was like, I'm gonna have to leave corporate and maybe go coach and teach maybe and just not make the money that I want to make. Because I want to be a good mom. Like, I think people think that I have to, I get to make a lot of money or get to be a great mom. And I was telling her No, with this with the way we build this company, you can have both remember that Erin? And she was like, really? Like, I can take vacations and I can take my kid and I can develop my kid and I can make money. That's literally what did it.

Erin Verbeck 13:07
Yeah, it was 100%. What did it because it was like okay, now I can see like this is possible. Because again, I didn't have any example of that I had the females that I was working with were either I was looking at them as they left, they walked out the door at like four o'clock like, Well, yeah, you don't work that hard. Because they had their kids to pick up with, you know, I was judging in my mind that person and knowing that I didn't want to be that person. I didn't want my employees looking at me like that. Or I was looking at people who had chosen not to have a family because they were really high up and they just didn't want to have that, you know, like, take that step. Sidestep in their career. So I felt like that was the only my only options and so when Sarah said, no, no, there's a whole other world over here. Come come over into this world. I was like, okay, that sounds good.

Eric Beer 13:54
Yeah, totally. You can have your cake and eat it both. It's scary, right? There's a lot of people that that believe that it's certainly 10 15 years ago, for sure. I have so many moms here that are so smart, that are like they're working for nothing. They're begging for work, and there's and they were like these investment bankers, like left to like be with their kids. And now they're just like, Can I get a job? Can I get a job? And like you're like 14 times smarter than and they just it's like the part of the unknown that it's like, Oh, I could do that. I can work from home I can also have a family and make money and be the breadwinner. Yeah, like like you you guys were lucky that you did that so early on, because it's just starting to like be realized by people I think more in the last few years. So that's great. And you guys are a dynamic duo for sure. So.. so what happened? So, okay, so we get together she comes you get this? This all started I have an all star team and I have helped. So you guys, what would you do you started this this low ticket offer? What what was the what was the what was the plan?

Sarah Petty 14:58
We literally had no plan. And we were like, we just need an idea. And tell us seminars were a thing. And we, Twitter was brand new and Erin had seen someone doing a thing. It was like the Brian Tracy, Alex Hormoi or Alex Mendoza, Liam, right? Wrong, Alex doing these things. And we saw it and I said, I'm gonna listen. So I dialed in, and it was terrible. And they're just blah, blah, blah. So an hour later, I dialed in, and they were like, Hey, if you buy it, you can buy the whole all the recordings for something cheap, like 20. And I don't

Erin Verbeck 15:32
know if it's like $79 I think, okay, like, yeah.

Sarah Petty 15:35
And I kept calling back saying, if there's anything good here, I'm in a bind, and nothing was good. And I went to air and I said, Erin, we can copy this model. Let's get everybody we know all we are spoken at photography space. So I knew all the industry leaders, let's get them all to record, a recording. We went to teleconferencing, you know, line if we ran, played, play the recordings every hour, and we sold it on the back end. And we did like 150 grand that first week and built our list of zero to like, 12,000 people that was in October, we got together in June. And we were like, Alright, we're going to be okay, here. It was pretty crazy. And so that's that. I mean, that.

Eric Beer 16:15
Not knowing, like, what the hell you're gonna do. And then you guys sat and talked about what you should do. You decided to like launch a program and made 150k in a weekend. Yeah. Wow. Yes,

Erin Verbeck 16:26
That's exactly exactly what happened.

Eric Beer 16:27
Did you rinse and repeat that at that point? Yeah.Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've scaled the business.

Sarah Petty 16:32
But what happened to is a year later, and it was 10 10 10. My twins were turning 10. I had it was a Sunday, I had a whole house full of little kids. And we decided to run, we named our events, you know, we had all these different specific things. And this was called attendance. And we had 10 speakers giving 10 selling tips. The internet was a baby. And we had so many people promoting it. We were the first in our industry. So we had everybody promoting it went live at like 10am. And what do you think happened? Nobody could get in, right? The internet, like, companies didn't know how to handle that kind of traffic. We were in it. We were within an industry company. And so it was just a nightmare. We were getting lambasted.

Erin Verbeck 17:14
I was at a wedding. I was at a wedding. And Sarah was with her twin, you know, because it was supposed to be just everybody just access it on the computer. Right? Like it wasn't it wasn't the phone anymore. It was it was it was the computer now we had moved it the internet versus calling into the free lines. And yeah, that was that was a, what did you do?

Sarah Petty 17:35
Well, we it was a low for us. If you look at the ups and downs over all these years, that was a low because you know, you spent so much money getting there. And with our team, it was a couple of months to create it. And we needed the cash flow. And it was like we have failed, we had to cancel it. We moved it to 10.17. And then we ended up recovering it and crushing it. But at that day, I mean, it was a low everyone.

Erin Verbeck 18:00
And everyone was so I remember so mean, right? Like, you know, and this was before we were spending ads, right. Our costs back then to get this thing going were like costs because we have to increase all the bandwidth for our website and all the design and the hosting, like things weren't cheap and easy to do. Like these were, this would take, you know, at least a month plus to put together all the promotional materials and the and the website and everything that needed to go and, you know, people were horrible. I took the day off work, I canceled a wedding I you know, like just the emails they'd send people are frauds, like, and we're leaders in the industry, no one else is doing this. And, and, and we're getting these kinds of messages. And I think we had one customer service person at the time, Sarah, like, and they're coming to us, like, what do we do? What do we do? Like, what are we supposed to say? We're like, we don't even know what to say. Like, we had sponsors, you know, who were like, we're like, Okay, we've got to let them know what's going on. And you know, it was like, rather than try to do it the next day, it's like, we know we're gonna probably need a week to reload, you know, to figure out what the tech stack looks like so that we can handle this volume. I think it was an E ticket master. It was like this is the way they likened it back when ticket master when everybody would call to try to get concert tickets, and you have like this little tiny hole that you're trying to shove all these people in. And that's in effect what we did to the internet, like, in 2010. During this

Sarah Petty 19:34
I was in EEO though, and I had someone in my EEO group that did that, that I called on Sunday, and I was like, what do we do? And he was the one that said, You're not going to fix it today. So we did a triage email, which I was we were proud of ourselves. We just said, Hey, here's what happened. We had so many people and then people were like, Wow, it's so professional. So it's such an emotional day. Right? And I remember telling Aaron that day like I leave macaroni and cheese before this company is going down. Yeah, and you know, and we've learned over time that like, it only takes one idea to change everything, right? One implement one idea, and everything can be changed. And so whenever things go wrong, we're like, we can fix it, there's a way to fix it. There are buyers out there, let's go fix it.

Eric Beer 20:16
At this point, when you guys are building this business, and photographers are calling up, one, who are you targeting? What kind of photographer and to what are they learning how to do? It's just somebody that just has a passion for going out and taking pictures? Because they love it? Do they have a business and you're helping them scale it to the next level? And if they are like, what is? What is it that you're teaching them? What is the what is the information you're teaching them and the result that they're going to get from being with you guys?

Sarah Petty 20:41
Yeah, we were very clear early on that our our niche is business. There are tons of people teaching photographers, but I was running a portrait photography business. So those were the systems that we were teaching, we're teaching them marketing, how to get clients, we're teaching them selling, right the sales process, and then we got into pricing. But when we were partnering with these other photographers, we would pick someone whose style was different that maybe they did a mark different marketing activity. And like 10 10 10, they were all getting something they did in selling, that was helping people and I would meet with each person really curate the content versus a national association where they just have speakers all day, and there's no common thread, no consistency. So our events had a theme, they were curated, we made sure the speakers delivered great content, everything was so excellent. And it was working great.

Erin Verbeck 21:35
When oftentimes, we would also include, like the marketing piece that they talked about. If you bought the recording, so they're talking about this promotion that they did in order to attract clients at a certain time of the year. And they'd say, Yeah, and if you buy the recordings, like you'll get this particular, you know, template that I used as well. So we had a lot of ways to upsell, you know, we're marketers, so we understood that side of it, even if like it wasn't funnel terminology, or if it wasn't like built, you know, on a certain platform, if it was harder to build, we still understood that side of it. So you know, it just took us so much longer to do it back then, than it does now. And then the coordination of our first event had, I think, 17 speakers 10 10 10 had 10, which was nice, we had one that had like 25 speakers, so just coordinating all of their, their materials, and all of that Sarah was saying, like we had all this money into it from a standpoint of like labor on our time and and to put all this together. And then you know, so we would, it was it was very much a launch model where we would have a high revenue month, and then we would have two or three low revenue months, you know, because we didn't have anything to sell in the in between time. Part of what made those that model work was the urgency and scarcity of it's free on these two days. Or you can buy it on these two days. And it was just all the excitement of everyone in the industry promoting it. And email was the main way of promoting things back then Facebook a little bit like Sarah said, Twitter had just kind of started. But people weren't we weren't buying ads to that.

Eric Beer 23:11
Yeah, so, so now you see you're working with people that already have a photography business, struggling a little bit, and you're just kind of helping them for the most part. And this is now the first business now. So take me through this gap of when I meet you. And then we're in the inner circle hanging out. And then I see from where your businesses from then till today, like fast track that take you through that quickly. So what happens?

Sarah Petty 23:36
We were doing these sort of law, it was sort of a launch model, right? Because you put everything into this one activity. So we were doing for a year. And that, you know, we started out high and then that curve would get lower that little roller coaster. And if we had a crash one a bad one, maybe a bad topic or bad timing. It was a big deal. That was a fourth of our revenue. And so Erin and I just were like we just don't love this lifestyle. So we tried to we threw together a high ticket coaching program. We got like 10 people, and they loved it. They loved it. And we'd meet with him each month. And then we added more people and we got one crabby person who is like, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. And we're like, Well, what did you do? Well, nothing but it doesn't work. And so I had three little kids at this time. Aaron didn't have her son yet. But we were like this is I just can't handle it. I don't know how to handle it. Like they're making us feel like we're not good. And we just shut down. So we're like, we're not going to sell high ticket. So then we went to we're going to double down on the kind of left the event model and we've doubled down on our continuity program. We're just going to amp that up. So we put every resource into that, you know, layering the whole concept is you get a lot of people to pay you whatever. I think it's 99 bucks a month at that point. So we just everything we did for that. Well, the first year was great, right? It was a 12 month program. So the first year was like growth, growth growth. Well then it 12 months. We didn't see that cliff coming of the people who had been there You're just dropped off, you know, because they're like trickle away, whatever and you're like, so then we're spending that next year was like just... just Tria, you know, you're just churn, you're just replacing the churn. So then we went to Walker like somewhere in there law, we're like, okay, let's launch a selling program. That was the marketing program. Let's let's do a different program to our current audience. And everything we were doing, we were hitting the same revenue, right? We were just coming up with just a different way of hitting the same revenue. Because really, Aaron and I were both grinding someone at our mastermind told us we were stuffing sausages, like picture that right that like nasty skin, and you're just shoving the garbage into that into that sausage machine. So that's where we were when we met you, right? We were like Russell's going to help us figure out how to make a funnel to scale these low ticket when I say low ticket at that point, we were selling pretty much our selling and marketing program that all canned up, they were just under 1000 bucks. And so that's where we came into Russell. We're like, we need to scale this, but we're not doing anything high ticket, we've done that we're not good at it. And we're not doing a live event like we had dabbled with that a little bit had to buy our way out. Right. So that's what we told him we weren't going to do. And so basically, he said, bundle everything together and sell it for 1000 bucks, just do a webinar every day get really great at that. So we did it right. We're action takers, and we're coachable. So we did that. We're like, Okay, we got the webinar performing. We track everything where we're like, show up, click through how many on it to offer how many blah, blah, blah, right? We're tracking, tracking, tracking till we got it really where we wanted it. Yeah. And then we went to scale. Right? So we start pouring Facebook ad money on it. And all of a sudden, we found ourselves down 45 grand in a month. We're like, wait a minute, you know, and then you know, Chris Russell's, like, well, you don't have anything to sell them in the back end, which is why you're, you know, you're like getting upside down because you're paying..

Erin Verbeck 26:57
Even on the front end. And we're like no, no, our whole business is the front end. Like, wait, what?

Eric Beer 27:04
That's that's a myth that a lot of people don't recognize the beginning for sure. So, so what, so what happened? So you you're... you're generating signups but you're underwater, you're acquiring a customer for 1200 bucks and getting 997 is so yeah, that is?

Sarah Petty 27:20
Yeah. So it was late year was fall in the only way like we run a really solid business. We're never we're like, right now we're like, we can't eat or we're going to get bankrupt or whatever. But it was a scary place. Like you don't want to end your year, upside down. Oh, in a big hole. And we were we were in such a big hole that I, we kind of talked to her like, we just need a band aid right now. Let's go sell something high ticket. And let's just get out of this hole. So we went to everyone who had bought something over $1,000 and everyone who had replied recently, like we found our, like, 300 I think really quality people we sent them a marketing piece in the mail inviting them to a private, like basically webinar. I don't know what we called it an invite and invited them to a two day training at my studio high high-end like sales with me because we hadn't done any of this. So there was some demand there. And we made 87,000 I think I got on the phone afterwards. And like one on one for a couple of days for

Erin Verbeck 28:21
Like six grand, it was $6,000 that's $1,000 and we made like

Sarah Petty 28:25
87 grand and and we were like oh my god that was so such easy money. And they came here and they loved it. And we went okay. Ding ding ding like, what are we doing here?

Eric Beer 28:38
Right. Wait, so everybody flew to you guys came came in person,

Sarah Petty 28:42
Because that was a mindset we had that was broken. We were saying no one's gonna come to me. I'm in Springfield, Illinois, the middle of the country, not a major airport. There's 190 minutes away,

Erin Verbeck 28:52
Seeing their moms. Their families.

Eric Beer 28:56
Sure, sure. Yeah, they did work. Meanwhile, I was like, let me get away from my family for a few days and free to hang out with other moms. And just like, it was such a good mental thing. I would bet for them it just as much as anything else.

Sarah Petty 29:08
And meanwhile, Erin and I whenever times were hard for us, that's what we did, we would leave home. Um, in fact, we're doing it this week.

Erin Verbeck 29:16
Not because times are hard, just because we're doing it.

Sarah Petty 29:19
Yeah. Because we need to make change, right. Like we need to leave our families. We do it 36 hour, she flies two hours, I drive two hours, we kind of meet there. We just work and you need that time to get clarity. Right? It was like telling ourselves, this is what we've done to grow this company. So vague, but like our student, you know, our little market can't do that. And that sort of proved to us. Oh my gosh, they can do it. They did do it.

Eric Beer 29:44
Yeah, it's healthy. There's no doubt whether I mean things would be great at home but I was fine. Whenever you you go somewhere. Certainly for work. It's just a reset for your mind to get back and create some energy for you. So you know, it's really powerful. So alright, so people come now you're now you're starting it but higher ticket, right? So where's that? Where's that moment I saw you guys like have a big lift. I remember seeing you guys at one of the meetings, and then like something happened. And then he got to another meeting and you were like, it was just like, oh my god, you like figured out things that like no one ever knew in this world and you're killing it. You're excited to tell other people about it, trying to help them because it's something new that I'm guessing other people were already doing like Russell, but you're like to you guys, it was new. Right? So it's like, holy cow. What was that? What did you guys do differently?

Sarah Petty 30:31
I think it was a couple things. I think part of it was watching Russell run a high ticket program. And I saw I saw the things that we didn't know 10 years earlier when we had tried to do it. And I told myself, I can't do this. Like they don't like me, I'm not good at this because I was good at it. And I do know what I'm doing. And I do have great systems, you know, but I didn't know how to manage. like certain things a big one was teaching people that they have to have personal responsibility like I took responsibility for when they fail. Like I felt like I had failed them. Totally. Amanda Keane, of course, our sort of life coach in Russell's program said, Sarah, you can't save people, you're not a Savior. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you're right. Like, I don't expect Russell to save me or Erin and I, like it's on us, we know that we are very clear that it is our investment is on us to get back. But yet I was feeling responsible for them. So that was sort of cooking inside of me. And then the other thing that happened was I was telling Erin, this something's going on. We have the best programs and people are telling us they're stuck. They're not getting results. And Facebook group started via thing and I said, just get me because I like get the idea. And then Erin makes it happen. Right? That's what is so great about our partnership is that our skills are there, we have the same vision, but like they're very complementary system, give me a bunch of people. So she created, you know, emails, or ads or whatever, and got me a group of people to do a class live. And I just said, I'm just gonna break it down. I'm gonna make people do it and figure out why they're getting stuck. So it was like over a month every day, I just created it as we went, which we don't like to do, but I just wanted, I would say just do this one thing, and then report back to me in this group. Okay, you guys all did that. Okay, do the next thing. We charged 1000 bucks. And it was it was ugly. And I was having to fix as we went. But then students

Erin Verbeck 32:21
Do we have did we have like, close to 60 students? Or do you remember?

Sarah Petty 32:26
Oh, I don't. I feel like it was closer to 30. But we could probably look it up. I bet that group, because I'm curious. I mean, we still know who exactly who was in it. Right? Yeah, you remember? Yeah. And so we did this a couple of times, each time I would do it live and I would make it better. And what we realized is we were overwhelming them to keep taking things out taking things out. And had to just make it streamlined, right. So we got it to be a well oiled machine. But what was happening was at the end of that time, there was they were wanting more. So over a year, we tested like a three month program, and then a six month program and they weren't getting traction yet. And we were leaning on people in our you know, our inner circle other people like how do we do this? Remember, we had some really great people step forward and go, Okay, here's what to do. They would Voxx us.

Erin Verbeck 33:16
Awesome. Dean Holland really helped us.

Sarah Petty 33:18
Holland was was amazing to help us. And so we got them clamoring for it asking for more help. And that's when we launched our 12 month program, because we realized, three months wasn't enough. And then I'm asking them for more money, but they hadn't gotten results. And we realized, we're so seasonal, they need 12 months. So we realized we needed to charge a little more. And we needed to create the value so that they could do a 12 month program. We started with five people. And then we went to 13. And then we went to 17. And I remember Erin and I having the takut kind of in that point of us needing to make a decision and Erin's like Sarah we've always said we don't want to go here and and that's what I love about you, Erin is she we fight for what we believe is right but also one of us. That's why our partnership works. Because sometimes I'm like Erin, you're you feel more strongly that's I go with you. But he or she was like are you sure? And I said yes, we can do this because we're ready. Like my kids were older. At this point. I had the ability and the mental capacity. And also I'm a better leader, I've become a better person and it's been hard. Like I'm still trying to get there. And same with Erin like we're both growing into this leadership part of the company. Because we've had to add team like we're adding team, we're managing a group we now have like 175 people in the group. But as we were doing this in growing we realized an event is the way to fill this a live event and I love speaking I love being on stage but like a live event is a huge risk. It's huge. It was live right so you have hotel contracts and everything. And so Alison Prince, love that woman. I was at a volleyball team with my daughter, we're between matches. I remember being in the hotel suite for 90 minutes she walked me through her event told me exactly what she did. We exactly copied it. And we crushed it. And this was February 14, like right before Valentine's Day of 2020. Wow, here we are crushing this event, we signed up people for 12 month payments. And you know, we just get them on boarded, we get their payments, we get them set up. When we realize March, mid March, the world is shutting down. And so I opened my first studio two weeks before 911. And this is where we had to pull up the big girl pants because it was like, I could just see everyone leaving us all this we thought we just had a when they're all going to leave us they're all going to quit. And I was like Sarah, you started your studio two weeks before 911. You you got through 2008 You can do this as a leader. And Erin and I talked to him, we're like we've got we can do this right. So I just told them, get off the news, get off the get off everything. Listen to my voice, and we will get through this together. And our community did what what was the stat Erin, they find

Erin Verbeck 36:08
That so as in 2020, they ended up doing

Sarah Petty 36:14
$2.9 million. $2.9 million?

Erin Verbeck 36:18
Minimum. Yeah, of our students like that they did during a pandemic selling portraits.

Eric Beer 36:25
Wow, when you're not allowed to see anybody. Yeah, that's and

Sarah Petty 36:28
So the many of them are still with us years later, they just keep signing up, signing up. And so we've had different growth challenges in these last two and a half, whatever years. Or guess it's been a little over two years, we realized pretty quickly after we got them on board that we actually inherited in April of 2020. Right after that we had two little part time salespeople, their only job was to take the people from the smaller course it was $1,000 at that point to the $12,000 program. It because it was taking so much time. So we found two people in our life, who had sales skills in like every, you know, couple of months, we did that program, that first program like three or four times a year, they would jump in and do that. We had a friend who closed her business in our space, and she had this excellent salesperson and she delivered her to us. She said do you want this person, we interviewed her we loved her, we thought she was a great skill set, match and core value match. But we couldn't sell the program at $1,000. I was selling it on webinars for that. So we realized, Okay, here's a huge opportunity. So we raise the price, we made it two months long, added a bunch more things, raise the price to three grand and it tripled our revenue, just like that didn't miss a beat.

Erin Verbeck 37:42
And that was in 2020, April 2021. So again, like right in the middle of a time period where everybody's telling you, you know, you can't do anything you can't the world is ending, you can't make money, like your business is going to close. And this is what we did with it.

Eric Beer 37:59
So, so in the photography world, take me through some things like so, like, I know, when I go, I'll go get pictures, right. And if you look at like the, the evolution of photography, it's like we used to do those Polaroids where it would come out immediately. And you get sick immediate satisfaction versus you get those, those those film right. Like, I don't know, if you ever show your kids that, you know, like, what is that thing? You know, we used to take film and we'd hand it in, and then they'd come and we have to wait, wait, whatever, forever long, like two days, you're so excited to go get your pictures, your pictures, right. And now like, we've moved to this digital world where like, I almost never print my pictures, I have 1000s of pictures I take pictures at will like the you know, usually it's like we used to have those pictures yet. 24. So you had to really be very specific with what you took. Now it's like, you know, like in, like, you look at your iPhone, and you're, you're all clogged up. So the business has definitely evolved in a big way. So like, what are some of the false beliefs that these photographers have that they think that they can't make money because of what's happening in almost every person in the world is now a photographer, so to speak? Yeah. How do you how do you how do you? How do you tackle that to turn that into a business? Because it's fun. I could see like, people love it. You know, it's just they don't know they can make money with it. What are some of the challenges that you're facing?

Sarah Petty 39:20
So we're crystal crystal clear on this? Alright, what most people are doing is they're like, Oh, I like this thing. So I'm going to take pictures for a friend, I'm going to charge $200 Give all the digital files to them. And here's the deal. There were no photos of me as a child, because people didn't have cameras on them. And so I got into business because I want people to have artwork on their walls. And so in a market where you're competing with free because everyone has a digital camera you have to be different when you're giving digital files for $200 You're like a fast food restaurant, right? There's one on every corner McDonald's, Arby's Hardee's Wendy's Do you have all this competition, right? So it's all the fear of I can't make money everybody's doing I have to do many sessions, I have to give it away. And we're teaching them a completely different model that's more like a sit down restaurant. So if you are my client, Eric, I would sit down with you, I would meet you and your wife and your kids. And I would look at how can I celebrate Eric's family? How can I bring out who they really are? Because I want a six foot wide wall portrait of you and your kids laughing? Doing what you do. So you walk in every day and you get goosebumps in your entire body, knowing like I have the best life I love my people. Yeah. And so our students when they follow the system have high service customization, right? You get your steak at the restaurant cooked the way you want it, you get dessert, you get wine, your bill, you know that your bill is going to be more right when you go to a beautiful table with a view restaurant. Drive thru. Same thing with us. There's no bait and switch. There's no yucky, yucky. I'm educating my clients and I spend a lot of time with them. And average orders go from 200 to 2000 4000. Like it's rare. And I'm in a cornfield in Illinois. It's rare that I have an order under $10,000. Wow, that's how you get your life back. Yeah, a one session a week at $2,000 is a six figure income. Any mom can do that.

Eric Beer 41:26
You know, I always wanted like a side photographers here. I always wanted to have a guaranteed photographer come by my house for every holiday for for during the Hanukkah Christmas area for Thanksgiving for Mother's Day, Father's Day, just coming and taking photos of my family. And I've done it twice. And my family is like, what the hell is this, they're all like, gotta come early, we got to get dressed up. I was like, Listen, if you don't want to be in, then don't be in. And Malcolm came. And they all loved it. And they all smiled. And at the end, when we produced all these pictures of our family, we still look back to this like, oh, that's that day where we had all, Hey, can you send me the picture from that day? Can I've gotten all that? Right? So it's like People always complain, but like, the ability to have that and then go and then take it to the next step of being able to frame them and put them on the wall like you're describing is a powerful thing that I don't think a lot of people do that I think you're you're spot on with because I take tons of pictures, amazing pictures, but I don't do anything with it. Ever. Oh my god. My mindset is, you know, one day I don't know when I'm dead. My kids kids will find them and be able to be like, Oh, that was grandpa here.

Erin Verbeck 42:33
Can I mean you know, what are they gonna do? Get them off your iPhone, get them off your old dead computer.

Sarah Petty 42:38
But here's the thing, Eric, your kids need them on the walls. Now. There are suffering in this pandemic. And you know, especially like junior high kids, you you know, you think Oh, I'm not pretty and you're comparing yourself to everyone else. When they come home when they see that my parents love me and they put this big image on the wall. They love me your wife feels loved, right? Like you feel like I am the man of the house. Look at my family. I provided love me because it Akers in that we are a strong family and we love each other. Because we know there are hard times in families when no one's getting along and everyone's fighting. It's like oh my god, who gave me these kids, right? But you look at that photo and you go, you know what we're gonna be okay. Oh, yeah. This is what we teach our students to educate people on photography is important. And you can say photographers have the disempowering belief that like nobody has any money right now. Gas prices are so high, the economy's terrible. No, people need artwork. Now they're spending money. And they're not traveling, they have money to spend and to invest. They should be investing with us. I feel so strongly. And I'll be at your house tomorrow by noon. Eric.

Eric Beer 43:52
Come, please. Family to get here. I would that's important, lengthy on that plenty. I just I think most people are lazy and just need to be reminded of that. And then they say yes, I mean, I would 100% You know, once I started getting into this world, before before, like being an influencer and podcasts and all that fun, get the idea of getting a photographer to follow you around to like, take pictures and document and experience was never even a thought in my mind. But like, now doing it and having photographers following me to do like, we went, I remember I went for this book launch. And I actually was late because of the traffic in New York City. But I had a photographer, meet me there to follow us around. And it was the most amazing day. And we just walked around and took great pictures with our family and all kinds of you know, you got to get used to like kind of like taking pictures like you feel funny when people are looking at you and stuff. But once you can get past that. It's yeah, I mean, I want to start off with me every day to just document every single moment I would pay for photographer to follow me around the world. Yeah, I think I think people people that do that. recognize because you don't see yourself. Right? Like, you don't see yourself in the world by being able to like, like you said, almost like someone else capturing moments of you in your life is a really powerful thing. You know, and I think it like also helps the inner self of being able to see you with your family. And then to your point, taking it and putting on the wall, which I need badly. I'm looking around my walls, and I just have like pictures, some of them are sitting on the ground and frames that have been put up. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. So, so now with all these people that are in this group, how do you do it where they they can scale their business? Is it a? Is it a they hire more photographers? And then teach them the framework so that they can do in other areas? Or is it just, you're just you attack your one local area? Do you travel? How does it work as..

Sarah Petty 45:52
They can, Eric, but truly, we market this as a lifestyle business, if they can make between 100 250k very part time, they can be the hands on parent that they want, right? We're not looking at people who want to make millions like we can make millions with funnels and online products. So they scale as they get better by increasing their average sale and they need 50 clients 50 clients giving you five grand each. That's a good business model. That's still one session at a time.

Eric Beer 46:26
So one a week, a little less than one a week got one a week 50 clients,

Sarah Petty 46:31
and then

Eric Beer 46:32
An hour or two hours. How long is the photography session when you do it for either?

Sarah Petty 46:37
20 minutes? 30 minutes? 45 minutes? Again, it depends like, if it's a documentary like you're looking for, it could be longer, right? Yeah. But it's whatever they want it to be. But I mean, I was doing six figures quickly with three babies at home. And my life was amazing, right. And then I got to 200 and then 300, and then 400. And I realized, okay, to go to the next level, in my photography, business, I have to have a bigger studio, I have to have more employees, I have to have more clients, more high touch. And that's when Joy Marketing had taken off. And it was like I can really scale that. But for someone like a second income, we have some people who are single parents or they have a child with special needs, what a great way to be able to provide for your family very part time. That's what this is about.

Eric Beer 47:26
Yeah. Erin, you wanna say something. So yeah,

Erin Verbeck 47:28
I think the thing that the place where we see, you know, most most people come to us and they're like, I just need more clients, I just need more clients. And the truth of it is, is that that's that's not the case at all. They just need to know how to serve their clients better. And get those average orders up. Because when they serve those clients better, then it becomes not just people coming in and saying, oh, yeah, I just want one big portrait. For over the mantel, it becomes a Yeah, but dad has an office. And we want a photo of dad with each kid. I mean, you saw, you know, one of the things that Sara, you know, created for Russell, his whole office is, is is decked out with, you know, Russell with each kid, you know, and then you have mom with each kid. And there's a lot of things that you can do to capture that relationship. And that stage of where the child is that really truly serves the family. And I think, but you have to educate them because the family comes to you thinking like kind of where you were saying, where you started with Eric of like, oh, yeah, just everybody hates it, because we all have to get together ramps ever close this certain way. And we're all standing a certain way. And it's posed and it's forced. And it's and what we teach and what boutique photography really is, is it's more of a lifestyle. It's less of that posts thing. And it's more of just like you and your family having fun. I mean, Kyle asks me every year he's eight now he's like, am I going to get to like when do I get to go and get my pictures taken again? Like he it's a thing he wants to do it it's fun for him like he actually has a good time doing it. And I think that it's it's sort of redefining what photography is how you do it, how often you do it. And when you do this type of photography with a photographer to hang artwork on your on your walls.

Eric Beer 49:16
Yeah, totally. So photographers, let's talk about this for a second because I think there's an overwhelming fear of when I love to take pictures, but Facebook ads and funnels and, and all the stuff that like oh my god, I'm not a marketer, I don't know how to do any of that. Like speak a little bit to how they don't have to really know that at all to be able to run a business right I just had a Dean on my on my podcast few weeks ago and they're doing something with all around the self education space. And it's their hurdle is always just trying to get people to understand they can make money with their passion for whatever they're good at and just focus on what you're good at and find the who not necessarily worried about the what and how All right, it's like speak a little bit about that. Because I know like, there are people here that are like you guys make it sound so easy. Sure, go take some pictures get some people do want a week. But then it's like, well, how do I do it? Where? How do I get somebody? Where do they come like where? How they find me? How do they hear about me speak a little about your process about how you you show people how to do that and make it a turnkey simple solution from they just do what they're really good at. And you help them with the rest of that. So you can turn it into a business, oh, capture information on a simple funnel and get somebody to come in and then get them to schedule a meeting and then Baba Baba, but you don't have to do any of that. Talk about that little bit?

Sarah Petty 50:40
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I started my photography business really before the internet before Facebook ads for all of that, right? So I had to figure out how to do it. And Erin and I were marketing director, ad agencies, we had bought media, we had bought billboards, and TV and radio, we know how to do all of that. But I didn't have that kind of money. Right? I knew what it took to run a radio campaign. And this was like, my little hobby business that I was trying to get going. So I had to figure out how to do it. And what's interesting is photographers think that there's some magic marketing thing they do that books clients, so we have to first educate them that marketing's job is to generate leads, but then what are you saying to them? They didn't know how to talk to them, they would just say here my price is well, of course, then if you're not the cheapest, you're not gonna get booked. So that was part of my learning curve. As an educator, as I had to break down. What am I doing in every step? So like the first phone call, we broke it into what we call the seven B's of seven things they have to do to book that client. Yeah. And so what's interesting is when I, I went out, and I was like, I'm going to market correctly, like I know how to, and I did one marketing activity and the first client who came in she invested $1,800. And I tried to sabotage the sale Her name was Julie. And so we celebrate Julie, everyone was like, How do I get to Julie, how do we get to Julie? So we focus on in that first class that they spend eight weeks with us on them going and getting a Julie, we give them easy to do activities we call one Kevin Bacon, right? The whole Kevin Bacon, your six degrees of separation from anybody in the world, work your network, find somebody who has a little girl in a dance class or somebody who just had a baby, or somebody who just adopted a child, they have a story to tell they have a need. And so then they have to educate them because like you said, you didn't really think about it a different way. You just were like I'm taking all the photos and one day I'll do something with them. Until we educated you on Whoa, what if you did this in your daughter's room, right? Make her feel amazing, you get a powerful image of her feeling confident. So she goes to school every day, feeling amazing about herself. And so we teach them how to educate their clients. So believe it or not, we don't like most of what we teach them doesn't cost a bunch of money. We don't teach them how to run Facebook ads. We don't teach them how to do all of these paid advertising things. We teach them how to go out there. Because clients are not solution aware. They're not out there looking for someone to do wall portraits. They assume every photographer is a fast food restaurant that they're 200 bucks, and they give him all the digital files totally,

Erin Verbeck 53:21
Totally one of the things we really work hard at doing knowing what limited amount of time many of our students have is we teach them how to make marketing fit into the life that they are already living. It shouldn't be this big thing that is weighing on their shoulders and like oh my gosh, how do I do this? What do I have to do I have to learn all this tech? It's like no, how can you make marketing fit into the life that you're already doing? How can you generate leads from the people that you already know from the relationships you already have? And how can you get clients from that? And then how can you and and then Sarah, you want to take it from there like that starts with the jewelry, but then there's a second level that goes, you know, goes on to that.

Sarah Petty 54:01
Yeah, we teach them partnering. My first business partner, her name was Bobby, she owned a kid's clothing store. And she would send me the first client she sent me invested 4200 bucks in portraits. And so she would I would photograph her clients in their cute clothes, give her a few images decorator store with artwork, and she was sending me these consistent clients. But the thing that's interesting is we teach we call it the boutique business model. So there's no discounting. We don't use price. And so when you're not making a juicy offer, it is hard to get results with Facebook ads. Right like it's so much it's better to get a right client like you for example. And then you show your friends and your neighbor comes and then their sister in law comes and you build that business organically and I teach you like this is when you have a new baby for example, this is a key time and then when you're when your baby's sitting up and then when your baby's standing. And then you know We do like two and a half, three. And then we get a formal portrait before your baby loses his teeth for a big giant one. And then we do empowerment sessions when your child is a tween like that pre teenage, when they're feeling bad about themselves and got the big teeth, we make them look and feel amazing. And then you come back for senior portraits. So we we get a client once we keep them for life, and we've decorated their entire homes you don't swap out. This is not a post family portrait and a white shirt and khakis. These are personality images with your little kid giggling and your… your two teenagers, you know rough housing, and your family doing what fun thing you do as a family. So it's artwork for your home. So once we educate, and we get a really great client, they stay with us for life. And they, they bring us referrals. So it's very organic. It's an organic marketing strategy, which is really different. Because what that's not what we do at Joy marketing, right? So we have to get people clear. One is a boutique business, and one is a high-volume educational business.

Eric Beer 56:03
That's really interesting. You know, it's the way you guys go about it is something I would love, love, love. Like, I would almost pay a membership because I'm not creative enough to think about it. But when you say, you know, it's like when someone's pregnant, and they go through the phases of, you know, month 1234 News, like automatically have the sessions that are triggered to document that that journey. And it seems like we kind of stop after that, right? It's like, like, I know, at my wedding, we got a photographer at my kids, bar mitzvahs, we had photographers, right, so like, but like these major events, and then then we don't do it anymore. And it's almost like, I wish I had a photographer, I would pay to be part of a club. And it's like, almost every month they come in, it's a stand like, like, you were taking pictures. And you're documenting that that month, and then you kind of like capture those moments throughout time. Because we all just kind of get busy and don't do anything. But then if you have somebody that's able to take those pictures and then turn them into something, it's interesting how you turn that into like niche businesses based on like, all these photographers like focusing on certain areas of somebody's life. And to your point, he gets somebody you get somebody wants to do a good job. And then they're the ones you call all the time, which is true, because the guy that I call the time is, I probably use them from the day I met him from Ashley's mitzvah, I probably used him probably another 10 to 12 times on like other events of things just because, right. And it just then he it's funny. Like so we paid for albums that we've still not sat down and had have done. And he's joking about it. Like, I'll just come over and do with you like 2000 Oh my goodness like that. She's 17. So four years ago, we still haven't done that. And now Zack's now like for a year, we have two hours sitting waiting to be done that we haven't done because we're just like,

Sarah Petty 57:56
Yeah, I don't know, this is part of what we teach our students. So we will get you someone Eric to take care of you. Because that's what was driving me crazy about the industry is, oh, one day we'll do it. No, the way our system works is that you make the decision, that photographer gets everything done for you. Right, so I see what you're wanting as being like a book that gets produced with all the images from each year. And then the special special images get put in your home is a Canvas as a as a, you know, series some in black and white some in color. And that's that's how the photographer can serve you. Right there. That's how they do

Eric Beer 58:36
They're just tiny, my house. So like an interior designer and some kindness. I have some teacher students that don't get I'd rather have my family.

Sarah Petty 58:43
Yeah, yeah. And art is good. Like other things are good. But I mean, I have a client in Chicago that invented something multi wealthy, like, wealthy, wealthy, they built a new home with elevators in it, I mean, just anything money could buy. And they told me I had to they've never done photography. And I kind of had to say that five kids and I'm like, let's just do one big, beautiful piece. And they told me people comment on those portraits of their kids more than anything in this very, very, very, very expensive home. What does that tell you? Right? That's the emotion that's them, not the granite that they paid $100,000 for, like that is the family and that's what they enjoy more than the elevator or the five wings of the house. So it's not even about money of clients with Renoir's and Picasso's when the not all of my clients are wealthy by any means I'm in a cornfield, but I have a couple and they tell me that the artwork we did for them means more to them. Why wouldn't it?

Eric Beer 59:42
Of course, of course. So, all right. So you guys have books, you have a podcast, how can people find you were aways that they can connect and get more information? Join please tell us please tell.

Sarah Petty 59:57
Joy Marketing is our website. So if you're portrait photographer and you want to make money with your camera. That's great. Our book Worth Every Penny is not photography specific. So if you're in a space where you want to make money that with something that doesn't compete on price, it's a fantastic read. You can follow me personally Sarah.Petty on Instagram or on Facebook. That's really I'm kind of the the one in the company that it's easiest to find. But I'd love to hear from you. If you like if you got any value here today, are your stories similar if there's anything I can do to help, that'd be that'd be great. You know where to find me.

Eric Beer 1:00:34
Listen, you guys are amazing. I've known you guys for I don't know, what, three to four years and you guys are two of my favorite favorite people. You are at the core, you're just you're good good people. And I feel blessed to to know you and to be around you forget about business just as a friendship. And I've seen you guys how you've grown in the last few years. And it's really, really exciting. And I look forward to seeing like what you guys do next. Because you guys are awesome. You guys are innovators. You guys are executioners, you guys like you hear it, you learn it, you do it. And that's just something that's really powerful. So, you know, hopefully one day, you can show me how to do that. And and we could have some fun together. But um, thank you guys, both for your time. I know Sarah, your rockstar Erin , I know you're gonna love coming on. So I appreciate you coming on. For me, thank you, I'm thankful for you. This audience has gotten a treat to see that there's, there's this world out here photography that people take pictures, but oh my god, you can make money while you do it. Especially for the people that are home that that feel like they want to take care of their family be with their kids, and just, they feel like they can't make any money. All you need is a camera. And just the simple few tips from some hanging around these two. And they can show you how to make a few 100 grand spending a few hours a week tops, it sounds like so, you know, it's pretty special stuff. So thank you for that you make an impact in a lot of people's lives. You should be proud.

Sarah Petty 1:02:03
Thank you, Eric. Thanks for having us. This was amazing. We appreciate you. And we love you so much. Like we're more than like business. We love being a business and making money. But for us, it's about the relationships that we have with really amazing people like you and we just treasure our friendships so much. So thank you for having both of us on here today.

Erin Verbeck 1:02:23
And we're gonna do big things together. Eric, I'm, I'm convinced it's happening. I'm speaking now

Eric Beer 1:02:28
That you got an executive. Now you got somebody else to help you out. Now let's do it already. We've... we've got a lot of great ideas. We just, it's time to execute. I've got some thoughts. I don't want to run a stair over and scare the hell out. I start freaking out with

Sarah Petty 1:02:48
Me stop. Create. We did have a 3 am with a group when we were up talking till 3 am that I'm hearing you, but my face is not showing. And I'm like, I love all of Eric's ideas. I can't...

Eric Beer 1:03:04
Time we'll definitely do it. Well, thank you. I appreciate you guys. Thanks for coming here. Would you like to learn how I built my business using other people's money? If so, go join my 21-Day Challenge at performancemarketersecrets.com. I look forward to meeting you and welcome you into my family. And remember, results don't lie. But the people who don't have any. Thanks for listening!